If you want your kids to feel comfortable in middle & upper class environments now & when older what would you do to help them?

[Treetops11]

My parents instilled an inferiority complex in me when I was young. We lived in an undesirable estate & they always spoke about people getting ideas above their station , referred to people as "the lawyers son", "doctors daughter " etc... opportunities were never for people like us.

I now have my own kids 13, 11 & 8 , I never want them feeling lesser. We are comfortable but I always feel embarrassed in
middle class company as if I'm an imposter.

How can I equip my kids to fit in anywhere with all walks of life? It truely is an amazing skill to have.

Sure they’ll eventually hear about it but don’t need to learn at home that mum considers there to be a hierarchy based on things people can’t control, such as what their parents did for a living or whether they were brought up in a council house. It’s absolute archaic shite.

Why sobriety? The middle & upper classes love a tipple!

@Treetops11 , because sobriety and the temperance movement was traditionally adjacent to grassroots class struggle and labour movements; alcohol was a distraction for workers and a much higher stakes for working families on lower incomes, just like today. My parents wouldn't have been concerned with emulating MC habits -thinking casual drinking MC style terribly bourgeois- although might have enjoyed a cup of mulled wine at Christmas, for instance.

I think what I'm saying is that what's made me comfortable in any section or strata of society is understanding where I'm from, whether my class or my mixed heritage, and understanding the world around me. It doesn't arise out of being able to mimic MC friends and colleagues like some kind of Hyacinth Bucket ‐it's not necessary. Being able to engage authentically, with integrity and curiosity in any given context, is a far more effective ‐and comfortable- place to aim for.

@WomanIsTaken you’re spot on. Confident authenticity coupled with a broad mind & being a good listener & communicator are noble goals.

@Anothernamechane Whereas I agree it's not helpful to 'obsess' about class, I think we do our working class DC no favours by pretending class ‐and their own class in particular‐ doesn't exist. I'm not talking about cultural signifiers, but about ensuring they have an awareness of themselves as part of a cohort which exists as a result of a socio-economic model which, by design, has historically brought about the oppression of one cohort by another and how many of these constructs (often in a very literal sense) of disadvantage remain built-in. When we know the topography of the landscape we can move more freely within it. It is liberating.

I'm an immigrant woman raising teen DDs in a culturally mixed WC household. My DDs are aware of the nuances of all those composite parts ‐sex, class and heritage‐ as material reality and assets to their characters, not as chips on their shoulders. They mix with anyone, not because I've instilled in them some kind of 'How To...' protocol, but because they're unencumbered by aforementioned chips.

So you think social class is ’all in people’s heads’? That it no longer exists, or perhaps, in your view, never did? That you should just ignore an actual set of social structures that determine huge amounts of elements in an individual’s life, and think it’ll all just go away?

I may add that the electrician could be earning the same as the dermatologist. Electricians & tradesmen in general charge a fortune in these parts & are very much in demand!

Yes the top set of names are great as noone will ever assume your social class.

Knowing about class and class markers probably doesn't matter if WC people want to stay in the same area, have the same type of jobs their parents and family do, associate with the same people they always have done, have no ambition to go to university or do anything different ever, ie live in a WC bubble.

However, if WC people want to better themselves, break out of that restrictive mindset, want to go into higher education and a profession, they are going to be surrounded by middle class people with different values, attitudes etc, so it might be useful and helpful to know something about those beforehand in order not to feel inferior like the OP says she was brought up to feel.

What's wrong with having a good life in a 'WC bubble' It doesn't make you inferior to the MC. Nor do WC values, whatever you think they may be.

Perhaps if MC people stopped looking down on WC jobs and values, the OP wouldn't feel inferior.

Education and culture - museums, art galleries, theatre (Youtube is a good source of plays).

Good manners especially table manners. Debretts Correct Form has everything you everything you need know for every situation.

Being well read. Always good for small talk.

The ability to engage people and put them at their ease.

Being polite to people of all walks of life. In difficult situations, being politely firm but never rude.

I agree with you, America is all about the money. It's the only marker needed!

See, I think the ‘culture’ stuff is nonsense, as a generalisation. The middle classes don’t in general spend vast amounts of time at the opera, exhibitions, classical concerts, and there’s a very strong philistine, anti-intellectual streak in British culture that runs through all classes. Swotting up on cultural capital with the idea it’s going to make you somehow ‘fit in’ with the MC/UMC/UC is a hiding to nowhere.

Who do you think goes to those things then? When I go to exhibitions, opera and ballet I rarely see working class people and not that many upper class, most of the visitors and audiences are middle class.
I disagree with you about the philistine anti intellectual British culture running through all classes. It's certainly there abundantly in the working classes and probably lower middle class, and to a certain extent in parts of the upper classes. However the middle classes are generally great respecters of academia and education, all those professors, doctors, lawyers etc need higher education to get into those careers, they're very keen for their children to work hard and do well at school.

You’re misunderstanding me. I’m not saying MC people aren’t overrepresented in the audiences at these events, I’m saying that only a small percentage of the MC and UC attend them. It’s very much a minority interest.

See, I think the ‘culture’ stuff is nonsense, as a generalisation. The middle classes don’t in general spend vast amounts of time at the opera, exhibitions, classical concerts, and there’s a very strong philistine, anti-intellectual streak in British culture that runs through all classes. Swotting up on cultural capital with the idea it’s going to make you somehow ‘fit in’ with the MC/UMC/UC is a hiding to nowhere.

These are not pursuits that anyone spends a 'vast amount of time' doing, but certainly they are very popular and the people that attend them are by and large middle class. Taking a child to an art exhibition once a year means they will have been to at least a dozen by the time they reach university and can talk about these exhibitions with, say, a Fine Art student they meet in their halls. Likewise, one European holiday every 3 years to Rome, Vienna, Greece means that they can join in when conversation turns to favourite European destinations at their Graduate program welcome drinks.

None of the above is anywhere near as important as treating everyone equally and with respect, and having good manners generally, but it certainly helps.

I grew up on a council estate in East London. Hard up, very working class but my parents prized education over anything else. We were encouraged to read and taken to the library at a very young age. They purchased a 10 volume children’s encyclopaedia which we were encouraged to browse and talk about what we had read. they discussed politics with us and took us to free museums and exhibitions. We would watch plays, concerts, opera and ballet on television and if there was any money we would go to see amateur productions of musicals and operettas. In other words, they brought us up as if we were middle class. I believe it is called anticipatory socialisation. Oops, I forgot - we always sat at the table and had to behave properly so if we went out we knew how to behave.

How can you tell that the people at the ballet or exhibition are middle class, or not working class? Is it just being there that makes them middle class? Or do you not spot many work boots and tabards, so you can tell the plumbers and dinner ladies aren’t in?

Likability & money seem to be the game changing factors. Increasingly Asia has the money so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Your'e probably right, I was more thinking along the lines of a pupillage dinner at a London Inns of Court.

Asia has the money AND are obsessed with education & music education, it will be very interesting!

Friends dc started at a very expensive private school. She dressed up for her dc’s first day. Arrived in her top of the range car.

On arrival she felt distinctly over dressed and out of place

On the plus side she has had no shortage of electricians, plumber’s builders and workmen to get work done on her house renovation

I don't think anyone who has spent a lot of time in the US would think this.

Sure, they are absolutely money obsessed, but at least in the East Coast there are hierarchies of belonging to various subgroups which are not all about money at all.

There is a reason Trump has such a chip on his shoulder.

Plenty of the barristers/judges I know would be just as happy to discuss the football /latest film at the cinema.

I love opera as it happens, and am very well read. And speak a couple of languages and love travel. But I am equally happy discussing cheesy Christmas films or football (I used to play). I know heaps who have season tickets to see their favourite team (for instance). Or barristers who aren't into the arts but have a favourite sport they invest a lot of time in (skiing /sailing /golf /rock climbing/Windsurfing - to give but a few examples).

It's just really weird and reductive to keep focusing on opera/museums as if they are the pinnacle of aspiration, or the only possible source of conversation (and I say that as someone who enjoys both)

And how do those groups on the East Coast differ to the U.K? Can they be infiltrated easily? The Trumps were always upper class , No?