If you want your kids to feel comfortable in middle & upper class environments now & when older what would you do to help them?

[Treetops11]

My parents instilled an inferiority complex in me when I was young. We lived in an undesirable estate & they always spoke about people getting ideas above their station , referred to people as "the lawyers son", "doctors daughter " etc... opportunities were never for people like us.

I now have my own kids 13, 11 & 8 , I never want them feeling lesser. We are comfortable but I always feel embarrassed in
middle class company as if I'm an imposter.

How can I equip my kids to fit in anywhere with all walks of life? It truely is an amazing skill to have.

Self esteem is probably the biggest thing. Also talk to them about the wider world and encourage critical thinking.

I think children also copy what they see so little things like reading, being interested in the news, listening to the economist podcast.

Try out some sports, my kids ski at a local place for less than ten quid including all equipment and not a lesson but helpful instructors on-site to help offer guidance and pointers. The ability to hold a conversation is really helpful, hanging around after church for tea and cake and chatting to the rest of the congregation is excellent practice. Any other hobby where there is a good mix of ages.

Being comfortable performing is a great confidence booster I think.

My youngest goes to Stagecoach, which is an acting & dance school more about building confidence and enjoying it than training them for TV roles (or at least our local one is, no idea if that's the same nationally).

I think it's been great for her confidence.

Team sports had a similar effect on my sister - she was very shy but being part of a team helped her come out of her shell.

One of my friends who's been very successful in her career has a drama background. Very useful when presenting to clients / people you want to persuade of your point of view.

I think the thing is, you can take your kids to all the opera, golf lessons, public speaking classes or whatever you think is 'middle class' in the world, if the whole time you are feeling on edge and like you don't belong, constantly looking over your shoulder and checking the kids are fitting in, even if this is subsconscious, I reckon the kids will pick up on this and start to feel like they don't belong there and the whole thing will be counter-productive.

I think forget the whole class thing, take them to whatever activities and days out and hobbies but pick based on what you and they enjoy, if that's more stereo-typically 'lower class' things or more 'upper class' it doesn't matter. Positive experiences are what matters really, not what those experiences are. Praise them for their achievements and encourage them to try again if they don't do so well. Hug them lots and let them know how much they're loved every day. Teach them good manners and to always be kind and considerate of others, this will get them a long way in whatever environment they end up in - role model this in yourself as far as you can, including things like being assertive without rude where necessary and apologising and making amends if you get things wrong. Get them as good an education as you can manage and really encourage them to strive for the best they can do academically, whilst also not neglecting a more all round education i.e. encouraging sports, music/arts and their other interests. These things will set them up with a good base in life to make their own choices, if being 'middle class' in some way matters to them they'll be equipped to pursue that, if they're happier being a tradesperson driving a white van and eating chips in front of the footie (or insert other working class stereotype here) then that's great too and you won't have spend their whole childhood implying this is some kind of failure or 'not for them'?

I think attending a top rated university is the best way to do this for your children (doesn't matter which course as long as the uni is good). When I went to a top uni we wore gowns, had formal dinners every other week, and by the end of it everyone was comfortable in those circles. It kinda forces you to become middle class.

And you're only 18 when you go, so very malleable in terms of accent, how you behave, socially etc etc. I don't know anyone who didn't feel comfortable in middle class circles after three years of that

Posture

Get them to mix with different people through hobbies, outings, friends round etc. no one should make them feel either intimidated or superior.

Don't label some things as posh and not for them, food, clothes, tv shows etc.

Teach them to converse. Really underrated right now. Can be just saying 'why do you think that?' or 'some people think this, what do you think?' get them to form thoughts, learn to express them, listen to others and develop their ideas in response. It could just be about the best type of biscuit, doesn't have to be profound! Eating together at the table helps this.

Get them to love learning, read widely, go to libraries, write down ideas etc. many working class families have a sense this isn't for them. There's a long history of working class libraries, institutes, evening classes etc. wanting to learn doesn't make you posh.

It depends. I taught my children very "old fashioned manners" on the grounds that they might need them one day because some people care about that stuff and it might be useful. But courtesy and quiet confidence are usually all you need anywhere.

A simple answer - don’t do any of this: “My parents instilled an inferiority complex in me when I was young. We lived in an undesirable estate & they always spoke about people getting ideas above their station , referred to people as "the lawyers son", "doctors daughter " etc... opportunities were never for people like us.”

I grew up on a council estate, the daughter of a cleaner and a call centre worker. I’ve got an Oxbridge degree and a professional career. They never told me not to aspire to university or discouraged me from pursuing a professional career, and loved and supported me. I don’t want to oversimplify things but telling your kids they can do what they want, providing them with a loving home and encouraging them to get a good education really goes a very long way.

Obviously the first thing is one you're already doing - never suggest that certain things, activities, professions, lifestyles are "not for us".

I agree hugely with the talk of cultural capital - it makes children more rounded and more able to interact with lots of different people about lots of different topics. I had to learn at least a few basics about football and football teams when I moved here as otherwise I just couldn't follow even the most basic of chitchat in the office.

Teach them manners. Nothing irritates me more than people who say that manners aren't important any more. I tell my DC that they may well choose NOT to use manners, but they need to know to know them so that yes, it is a CHOICE ithey're not using them, not a lack of knowledge. Don't get me wrong, it's 2024 so I would like to think that, for example, no one is going to meltdown because my ADHD, borderline-dyspraxic son doesn't hold his knife and fork exactly the "correct" way, but I do expect him to USE the knife and fork, eat with his mouth closed, not throw or spill food around, don't talk with his mouth full, put his knife and fork together when he's finished etc etc. glares at DD who is irritatingly resistant to learning knife and fork use correctly but I will persevere

This extends to please, thank you, how and when to shake hands, greeting people etc.

Encourage them to sign up for different activities and sports. It's a great way to meet different people, expand your horizons etc and to learn that there are different ways of doing things in different situations - the ettiquette at DS' basketball club is different to the one at his Karate club for example and understanding that will help him to understand and adjust for other different situations as he gets older.

Nothing. I'm working class and I'm just me, why do I need to act a certain way to be "comfortable" around middle and upper classes? If someone doesn't like the way I am then that's up to them, I wouldn't change my behaviour to impress somebody else and wouldn't encourage my DS to either.

I agree with this, alongside the advice about table manners, in fact good manners generally, and gaining 'cultural capital' through reading, galleries, learning an instrument (or singing in a choir) and debating. If their school has a debating society, they should join it.

Apart from anything else, all of that will keep them off screens and out of trouble

That's great for you, but what if you need that person to like you or do somethig for you? The point is to give them the skills should they need or want them.

My very first job was in the kind of role where I was going to have to be in all kinds of social situations with different people, many of whom were posh and/or very wealthy (and yes, often somewhat obnoxious with it). As part of the job interiew process, I was invited for lunch. I'm not stupid- they invited me to lunch to ensure my manners were appropriate and that I was not going to embarass them or act inappropriately when out with their clients.

A club where they do lots of activities they wouldn’t usually do and meet people they wouldn’t usually meet, scouts could be good.

I just wouldn't do a job like that. I could not live the kind of life where I needed to put that kind of pressure on myself.

Good manners, good table manners, wide vocab, good world knowledge, and oodles of self esteem.

Just to add, DS is 13, obviously hates being seen in public with me, is mortified if I so much as smile at a waitress etc etc but we did have a few interesting interactions oevr parent evening last year where he was, of course, mortified that we had polite, friendly chitchats and even shared a few jokes with his teachers.....but a few days later, he came to me and told me that actualy, it turns out that me and DH having those friendly iinteractions had really helped as suddenly a few things had improved at school.

It is more about feeling comfortable in any company, and not feeling inadequate, for example not having gone to a top rated uni, when everyone else at the party has. Or feeling that the nice restaurant is not for a person, because the table is laid with several pieces of cutlery, and worrying about knowing how to use them, in the right order. So in turn, feeling out of place, and not being comfortable in different situations, places.

I get that. But what if your DC DO want to do it!? That's the point - OP doesn't want to limit her children's options in the way that her parents did.

Bet there’s never been a middle class parent worrying about how to make sure their kids fit in with and are respected by working class people.

Just to add, in diversity and inclusion circles, there's a growing focus in big firms on the issue of the fact that the vast bulk of people who get promoted are the ones that have gone to private schools/top universities and are solidly middle or upper class. So even when a firm has a good spread of male/female, has POC representation, they can often still be actually only promoting from a relatively small group. The classic, rather silly but nonetheless accurate, example that is rolled out is golf and how being able to play golf can grease the wheels in these environments.

I'd start with talking to them about why people are so obsessed with assigning themselves and others to the class system. It's such a limiting mindset. Self worth is everything and that is what you should be promoting not the myth of some kind of superiority or inferiority based on a system used to keep people in their places.

That is because they do not need to. When has it been a thing for people to aspire to be working class? It would seem to me, that a lot of people are desperate to acquire some sort of middle class ideal. I see it regularly on MN people declaring that they are middle class, when there is no need.

Well, I certainly expect my children to be able to interact as easily with working class people and I'd hope that they have values that even the most traditional workign class person would appreciate.

The risk that middle class people worry about in this contex is that our children will be wankers and/or snobs frankly who look down on or judge working class people. I've certainly made an effort to ensure that doesn't' happen, helped hugely by the fact that we live in an area that is quite diverse from a socio-eonomic perspective and my children's friends are very diverse as a result. Of course, having said that, I do notice that some of the apparently wealthier, posher children and their families do seem to gang together and then the rest of us are moving around interacting iwth a wider variety. Sometimes I judge that, I admit.

I agree with the PP who mentioned the name choices you make for your kids. I know it shouldn’t be the case but it absolutely is that certain names and types of names will always sound….not middle class.

It really will hinder your child’s social mobility if they have a certain type of name. It’s one of the first things that, rightly or wrongly, people will make a snap judgement on and you’re setting them up with an advantage if that first judgement is a positive impression. Or at least not a negative one. People absolutely do make sub conscious assumptions about a person based on their name. Including teachers, recruiters and many others.

I’m trying not to give examples of the very much not MC names because I don’t want anyone to read it and feel shit (assuming they give two hoots about my opinion, probably not!) but I am convinced that naming your child a fairly classic name will only ever help them whether you like that fact or not.

E.g. Oscar, William, Harry, Tom, Olivia, Emily, Florence, Freya, are all very MC names which will automatically make people they meet assume that they have a MC background.

My Scottish working class parents took me to art galleries, concerts, theatres....I rarely go to such places now.