If you want your kids to feel comfortable in middle & upper class environments now & when older what would you do to help them?

[Treetops11]

My parents instilled an inferiority complex in me when I was young. We lived in an undesirable estate & they always spoke about people getting ideas above their station , referred to people as "the lawyers son", "doctors daughter " etc... opportunities were never for people like us.

I now have my own kids 13, 11 & 8 , I never want them feeling lesser. We are comfortable but I always feel embarrassed in
middle class company as if I'm an imposter.

How can I equip my kids to fit in anywhere with all walks of life? It truely is an amazing skill to have.

Hi OP,

it’s about skills, imv. If, from a young age you are taught skills that make you feel good about yourself and what you can do, the rest falls into place. But I think it helps if there are a range of skills. So, camping skills that teach you what you can do with a few things and make you realise you don’t need superficial things all the time really teaches you self sufficiency, and practical sense. Once you have that, I think you can build on so much. Travelling is great for teaching you to navigate new places, use your initiative, etc. These are things that middle class education used to encourage alongside the academics. Drive, determination and perseverance all kick in once you’ve found something you really love doing and want money to do - like skiing trips, etc.

There is such a wall of noise about class and elitism around this topic and so much of it is nonsense but if you drill down to the things that make children grow into adults confident in their own skin then it is all about gaining skills as the more skilled you are, the more confident you become in your abilities.

I’ve noticed that Hugo is starting to trickle down the social classes…

Teach them to grasp any opportunity that comes their way. The more different experiences and extra curricular activities they have the better. They will meet more different people, develop skills and learn about themselves. Class counsel rep? Go for it. Violin lessons? If you can afford them give them a try. School trip to Scotland? If you can finance it, send them. Debating club at school? Join it. Free day? Go visit an art gallery, a museum, take a walk in a national park. Pen pal in France? Why not? Play a sort? Volunteer to help coach younger members of the club. All these things will boost confidence and self belief.

Yes @motherofonegirl this is exactly what I mean - it isn’t passive volunteering that does it but engagement - the confidence comes from finding the skill or ability within themselves that they can do it - the realisation of this kicks off the start of self confidence and they build on it by practising those skills and learning new ones - they are discovering who they are inside.

Hmm, I'm probably from a very similar background to you op.

I plan to send my kids to private secondary school. I went to a rough working class comp, and refuse to have this kind of education for my kids.

Bear in mind we live abroad, so the whole working class/middle/upper class puzzle is alleviated.

And they won't have an accent, posh or otherwise!

sport is a great leveller

if your children are unsure at an event/function, don’t rush, watch what others do & listen and talk in ratio to ears & mouth

it’s true that being yourself is great, having a few tips up your sleeve is always useful to remember

It is a slightly odd question though - surely you bring your children up to be socially adept and good company anyway? Then the social strata they feel comfortable in is up to them.

Various Friends have sent their dc to private schools but theiir dcs are not particularly social so they stay in their bedrooms whilst state educated dd and her state school mates party with the public school set. It’s largely personality dependent with teens - parents have less control than they think they have!

I don't disagree with you but I will give one exception to the norm.. I watched Jacob Rees Moggs show about his family & his kids lived on fish fingers, chicken nuggets & chips with lashings & lashings of ketchup🤣 Even his own diet was very limited, he loved Greggs!

JRM - fish fingers, chicken nuggets and ketchup = inverted snobbery.

It’s not the time of Downton Abbey! If people like you and you are good company and a kind friend it really doesn’t matter.

Lots of working class Hughs in Scotland in previous generations!

The people for whom it does matter you would not want your children exposed to in any event. Well I certainly wouldn’t.

Shuggie you mean? Agree, not a "posh" name in the slightest in Scotland.

Despite my parents' inverse snobbery and "not for the likes of us" ethos about a whole lot of things and a huge dose of othering people who were seen as posh, they did me and my sister a huge favour in their choice of names. We were not called Karen/Sharon/Donna/Tracey/Nicola as every other girl born in the 70s appeared to have been named, they chose names which were Scottish in flavour and fairly timeless.

See I don't understand this feeling of inferiority? My parents were far from rich in fact they were both unemployed for most of my childhood! Father was the polar opposite of a classy gentleman

And I've never felt inferior in the presence of someone richer than me nor has anyone ever judged me for not using a fish knife

I do think a lot of you on here are paranoid about nothing

There's two layers really. My preferred is nice to everyone and comfortable in themselves. From tiny, speak them as sentient beings, get them to be comfortable speaking to adults and matching the vibe (as they are comfortable with) of lots of different places, have lots of friends over for dinner and the kids eat/chat with you and help them find activities they are passionate about. If you have bombproof self esteem and something to talk about, you can be comfortable everywhere.

Or you can do private school, skiing, tennis, right clothes, horse riding, languages. But it can be brittle if they don't live these things and possibly encourages your kids to look down on others to feel better about themselves.

I've always had imposter syndrome but the more I lean into "me" and don't pretend to be someone else - I find moving between socially different groups much easier. My son's activities attract very different groups but he is socially accepted in both. Mostly because he likes people and that is very difficult to fake and easy to warm to.

Yes, lots of Hughs. Never met a working class Hugo though.

I'm from a working class background, though now I'd definitely be considered middle class given my job/home/lifestyle. Quite honestly, I've never thought about it.

It's never something I considered. We (siblings and I) were taught good manners, my dad instilled in us a love of books, art, and music because he liked them, and we had decent education though certainly not private. We went to museums and galleries a lot because a) they were free and b) they were fun.

University made the class gaps disappear a bit in my experience; it was a mixed bag of people, and only the true upper class stood out - usually for being the only ones unable to cook! Everyone else seemed to grasp the basics quickly, even if they'd arrived knowing nothing.

Can't say I've ever considered it during my professional years either. I don't look up to or down at anyone, and I've a "take it or leave it" attitude when it comes to what people think of me. I don't find it difficult to talk about most topics, and I certainly don't care if someone grew up better off than me. Doesn't make them better; my kids are growing up with horses and two houses, but that doesn't make them better off than any kid in their school who isn't. I'd be furious if they thought it did, and I'd not want anyone kowtowing to them either.

Teach them to be considerate, kind,
hardworking, polite, respectful of others regardless of what job they do, what house they live in or how much money they have. Make sure they are confident in themselves and mix with a variety of people from different backgrounds. Expose them to new things, different foods, travel and culture so they know about the world. Remember that they will take their lead from you, so you need to take extra care to ensure you do not put your issues on them.

Teach them manners and etiquette such as writing paper thank you cards and which words are considered posh vs common. Do NOT teach them that they have to use the posh words of course but it helps to be aware - I didn't know when I went to private school that 'toilet' is common and 'loo' is posh, same for serviette napkin and settee sofa. I would have liked a heads up about this.

I’m finding it wild so many people are putting everything into cultural capital as whilst I think this is important and we’re instilling it in our DD because we get pleasure from these things, I’m not sure it’s going to help her much long term in living a happy life. Assuming you need enough money to live, don’t go into the traditional MC occupations.

Ourselves and most of our friends are in high cultural capital jobs (think museums, academia) and it’s an awful way of life, as there is no money. As we’re not super wealthy we can’t fund a hobby job, so I guess these will revert back to being very UMC professions.

One of my friends recently had a baby and was even going so far as to say ‘No classics degree for you, you’re going to get a trade’ as a joke to their baby, but there’s a kernel of truth there. I think the current financial situation of most millennials have fundamentally shifted perception of a lot of traditional jobs.

So many friends in humanities academia who are trapped in short term contracts and miserable, Doctors have a ridiculously rough work/life balance in this country, criminal barristers now get an incredibly rough deal financially (though other parts of law are now good).

I do take your point OP and I think it is important to make sure children fit in anywhere and manners are important. But I do think we’re becoming more about money in the same style of America so traditional MC indicators are going to be less important. UC indicators aren’t needed as they have security anyway!

Don’t correct them if they make a mistake.

They are young and with every correction they have a little bit of confidence chipped away

I think you have to model self confidence and have the self confidence to be able to talk to all people exactly the same whether they live in a council high rise or in a sprawling estate

Encourage them down the road of learning a musical instrument or something that is a niche skill that makes them interesting

There are many people becoming doctors or solicitors that don’t fit into that middle or upper class bracket so they wouldnt be only mixing with middle or upper class people while studying laws or medicine

I would say it is not making simple errors a catastrophe

Take the drama out of things and realise that no one is superior

and no one could give a flying crap about who you are.

They are people just like you, just with a bit more cash and a bit more of a family tree they can trace by walking past the portraits hung on the wall of the family home.

I suppose you have to balance in your own mind that your parents were one thing and you are a completely different person and decide what it is you believe

None of it matters - the fish knives or the using the wrong words.

Dd just got back from a trip with her friends incredibly grand and wealthy family. Watching the TikTok’s orchestrated by her of her friend and the incredibly grand dad prancing round laughing their heads off proves it’s about your child’s character and whether they are good company and not their manners!

Ditching the class obsession is the first step. They don't need to learn about class, class markers or that anyone is considered better than anyone else. Make sure they get a rounded education and socialise with working and middle class people.

From your own perspective I'd stay off Mumsnet because the majority of people in real life don't think this way

They will learn regardless.