Free Luigi - crazy

[WillowTit]

The dark fandom behind CEO murder suspect Luigi Mangione - BBC News

this is crazy, but would it happen in UK?

It's not crazy at all. The US health system is absolutely mind boggling and the worst example of capitalism, greed and pure evil. There was a true story of a women on Tiktok who had a premature birth with a baby under circumstances that the insurance refused to cover (for reference, United Healthcare rejects 30% of claims. Imagine the NHS rejecting treatment for 1/3 people). She was left over $100K in debt with a dead baby and they even charged her a thousand dollars for the urn. That is just the tip of the iceberg. Being left in debt is the "better" option compared to many who were left to die.

Yep. I lived in the US for less than a year, so not long at all, but the absolute fear when someone became unwell was very scary. I had a colleague who had to work while going through chemotherapy for breast cancer as not only did she not get sick pay, if she went off sick her health insurance would be stopped, if her health insurance stopped she would face a delay of 6-8 months before medicaid kicked in, meaning absolutely no treatment during that time. It isn’t unusual for cancer related surgery to not be covered if they believe the person won’t live more than five years.

We had a colleagues whose pregnancy wasn’t covered because her baby was still born, pregnancy was only covered if there was either a live birth or a medical reason like an eptopic pregnancy for it not ending in a live birth.

I’m a type one diabetic, lets imagine I usually get through four pens a week, my insurance would only fund x amount of year, when I reached the limit I had to pay for it, and only my pens were covered, my strips etc were not. So I was paying around $80 a week for consumables that should have cost pennies, when my allocated insulin ran out I was paying hundreds of dollars a month just for insulin, which again should have actually been fairly cheap. I was okay, I was on a UK contract I could then claim it all back on expenses.

Presumption of innocence?

Exactly. As Brecht said, what is the crime of robbing a bank compared to the crime of owning one?

I also don’t think the reaction is that shocking when we think about the media and social media reaction to a few millionnaires being in that missing sub.

Y'all brave with your free health care. All on the right side of the law because your kids and family aren't dying because of some company focused on profit.

Not to mention access to meds.

We are very blessed, for now. We are outraged people have to wait for ambulances and a&e crowded...imagine having US standards and waiting to see if you, your loved ones are worth saving or having health care provided. Imagine not being able to afford an epipen or insulin.

A friend of mine when we were teens told me how his mother had to go hospital and it was going to bankrupt them because she broke her foot or ankle a year or so more ago and was suffering complications as she didn't go dr at the time. I remember being VERY confused as to why not and he simply said "we couldn't afford it".

Y'all brave with your free health care. All on the right side of the law because your kids and family aren't dying because of some company focused on profit.

Therefore it's acceptable to gun down healthcare execs in the streets and the people who do this should face no charges?

Acceptable? No. Unexpected? Also no.

Perhaps they should save their hatred for the laws of the country in which the actions of the insurance companies are legal.

Perhaps they should choose who they vote for more wisely,, and campaign for those laws to be changed.

But this is America, where guns talk.

Anyone being shot in the US isn't unexpected, it seems to be a risk of merely living there.

But the hero worshippers and the 'Free Luigi' crowd certainly seem to think that it shouldn't be a crime to kill a healthcare CEO.

Do you think he spent time thinking about the families he affected and people he killed rubber-stamping policies that meant families payed for healthcare they couldn't receive any more for his profit? He caused thousands of deaths through his actions. How do you think the Nuremburg trial came about? It isn't ever just about those pulling the physical trigger.

There are plenty of people who do exactly what you suggest and get no where. Unfortunately being on the losing side also means that you’re the one to physically and materially suffer.

this isn’t an argument with people with the same mentality as you. The goal is to increase profit no matter the cost to the individual. I can absolutely see how that breeds a mindset that talking isn’t enough, clearly speaking their* language is the only way they’ll take any notice.

*them being the people who knowingly risk others health and lives to chase a profit.

I'm not saying it was ok but the guy he killed was responsible for way more deaths overall than Luigi.

It's not right, but I can see why they think that's the only course of action to try and shake up the medical industry. Currently the CEOs are so rich and powerful that they are pretty much above the law. Why would they even bother about caring for the normal people in the street? They just see them as a way to increase their profits, rather than actual people. If some die, well that doesn't matter as most of them will still live and can be drained financially.

… and they have a fairly strong argument when the intentional harm these corporate positions have chased is scrutinised.

it’s fundamentally a corporation pitted against individuals who don’t make them money so they can withhold the means to survive.

I don't deny that. However the minute you decide it's acceptable to gun certain people down in the street in cold blood the question is raised 'who is next on the list?'

Where do you draw the line? Is it acceptable to gun down Big Tobacco bosses? Petroleum company leaders? What about church leaders who ignored child abuse?

Do you guys think that it takes a certain cold heart to be ceo of insurance company killing so many for profit?

Personally, as much as having that income would mean a very good future for my children and their children's children, I dont think I could mentally handle the guilt of having something to do with deaths in a way. Although I have bread on the table and roof over my head so I don't have the desperation to be cold hearted. Although I don't think the ceo was living under a bridge prior but who knows.

I'm personally against murder, very eco, recycle, use trains rather than planes where possible before people here jump on mah tits trying to start an argument 😂

@noblegiraffe

you are right. That way lies the abolition of any law but the law of the jungle.

On a basic level I don’t disagree, but that relies on everyone playing by the same rules. Corporations knowingly cause irreversible harms and then hide behind lawyers and politicians. It’s not a level playing field and certainly not one with a healthy respect for rules, wellbeing or fairness.

Luigi and others like him (like my earlier example of a parent hurting their child’s abuser) should absolutely stand before a court and face judgement for their actions. But I’m also not comfortable with deciding that David has to play by the same rules as Goliath.

Before anything was known about the killer
NYPD were very surprised that the usual "internet sleuths" did not try to solve the "true crime"
because any and every American knows somebody harmed by private medical care

(In my case it was providing a family member with kidney transplant but NOT the anti rejection drugs afterwards so the kidney died and the person is back on dialysis till they die. The right drugs would have allowed that person to get back into work.)

The very first person that died as a result of the CEO's actions should be considered him pulling the trigger. Luigi is showing the double standards of the day, where desperate people get prison or death sentences while the rich get money and kudos for the same thing. The point has been highlighted starkly thanks to him.

I don’t think murder is ever acceptable. I wonder whether all the practices in that company or others are legal such as the way decisions are made. If not long jail terms.

I don’t think people worldwide are that different and it could happen here if there is a sense of grievance. It isn’t as blatant as in US but there is a postcode lottery fit treatment in the UK. Someone has to decide what treatments are or aren’t paid for such as cancer drugs or therapy such as that may be available in Prostate cancer
if you or a close relative was denied treatment can you go after the decision maker?

I might feel that level of anger is if it was me affected or family which is why I don’t think it is acceptable or he should become a folk hero.

It's an unusual case because the victim was responsible for many deaths and a lot of misery and would never be held to account, on the contrary he was rewarded with millions. I think people are conflicted about the case because of the deeper questions about corporate greed in the US and the disregard for the lives of poor people.

People are also acting as if this Luigi is guilty but he hasn't had a trial yet. That seems really wrong.

The ethics are different however - you're trying to compare a free healthcare system that has to prioritise needs and death rates for our tax payments to be efficient to the population to a group of rich men making profit out of cutting things they will treat for millions of people who have already paid for treatment they now cannot get. And women are disproportionally more negatively affected than men by these choices in both counties.

Are there really? How often are big changes made because of a nice peaceful protest?