Free Luigi - crazy

[WillowTit]

The dark fandom behind CEO murder suspect Luigi Mangione - BBC News

this is crazy, but would it happen in UK?

No becuase there isn't as much hatred toward private health insurance companies in the UK because people don't have to rely on it as much.

i dont think we would every glorify murder this way either,
very black mirror

although plenty cheer when a murderer is murdered in prison

I can understand the hatred towards his victim. The guy destroyed lives. Therfore it's easy to see why Mangione is seen by many as a hero.
I'm not saying it's right.

There's a long history of folk heroes who did this kind of thing - not least Robin Hood, who is British as they come.

It’s a difficult one. Think about car insurers here—they try everything they can to avoid paying out. The business model/profit is on getting people to buy car insurance, but not to make claims. The flaw in the system is that this is healthcare and there is no NHS in the US. So if you need a particular cancer drug, your insurer can say no. Or if you need to be medically airlifted, your insurer can say no. If you don’t get your treatment pre-approved before you get it, your insurer will refuse to pay the bill. And United Healthcare is one of the insurance companies with the worst reputation for refusal to pay. You can understand why it’s emotive, because lives are literally on the line at the expense of a company wanting to grow its profits. We need to take note; there are those in government who would like to dismantle the NHS and replace it with private insurance.

It definitely could happen here. We don't have similar issues with private healthcare but there is a lot of anger building due to the widening wealth gap and a constant decrease in the standard of living.

Free Luigi!

The case has highlighted the shocking state of the US healthcare system. People have a lot of sympathy for him because he flipped because of it and they can understand his frustration.

It could happen here - look at the way some nasty people like Andrew Tate are idolised ( I'm not saying he's a murderer!). But the footage shown yesterday of people in Middlesbrough cheering and egging on others to smash house and shop windows and demanding to know if car drivers are white, trying to set a police officer on fire... It chilled me to the marrow and made me realise that yes, unthinkable things could and do happen here.

Why should he go free? He killed someone in cold blood.

I think it's hard for us in the UK to understand the depth of feeling around the health insurance issue, as we simply don't have a comparable frame of reference. But the stark facts are that every year thousands of people in the US go bankrupt, lose their homes, suffer with chronic untreated pain or even die because of refusal of companies like UHC to pay for necessary treatment. And these are not people asking for something for nothing - they've often paid hundreds of dollars a month for coverage that simply isn't there when they need it.

It's a truly shocking situation and I am not in the least bit surprised that so many people are supportive of Mangione's actions. I'm actually surprised it's not happened sooner. I'm not condoning murder, but many many people's lives have been destroyed by the practices of men like Thompson, in the pursuit of profit.

Add to that the fact that Mangione is a young, handsome guy with a heavy social media prescence and of course tiktok etc has gone batshit crazy for him. The trial will be fascinating.

I don't think people are that sympathetic towards the man who was killed because of his role in the sheer misery and pain caused by insurance companies who won't pay out.

Luigi Mangione should obviously be jailed because of what he did, but he appears to be someone who's not coping with his disability and the pain involved, and it's affected his mind in some way and he appears to be somewhat mentally ill or deranged or something. I think he might benefit from treatment rather than just locking him up. I suppose the details will come out in the trial. I don't think he'll last long if he's sent to Rikers Island though.

This is a really strange case and I’d think that Luigi Mangione is mentally unwell - he has cryptic messages on his Twitter header (one relating to a Bible quote about righteousness of the rich). I know first hand how miserable back pain can make people.

The rate of refusals of health claims went up at United Healthcare under Brian Thompson's leadership. This contributed to the company's profitability and the sum of human misery. He earned 10.2 million dollars a year and was being investigated for insider trading after a recent offload of shares whilst facing an antitrust investigation. I'd say he was not one of the 'good guys'. It glaringly illustrates the inequity of healthcare in the US in the absence of a National Health Service. But hey they just elected a President who opposed 'Obamacare' which was designed to help the lower classes access healthcare. Go figure.

I personally think it was easier to lionise a mythical 'assassin' who's on the run than an actual cold blooded killer now apprehended and in police custody. It's more saddening really to see someone throw away their own life as well as someone else's because of a debilitating disability.

Will it make a difference to how Americans conceive of a national free at the point of use healthcare system? Probably not. Inequality and social immobility is so ingrained.

It does not surprise me: people go bankrupt because of the health insurance system in the US and many are denied claims/treatments and even up dying because they can't access the correct medical support.

No wonder people hate insurance bosses.

Health insurance companies aren't evil though, in the way that fire isn't evil. Its in the nature of profit making corporations to prioritise making a profit - that's what efficiency means in that context, and the most efficient corporation survives in a competitive market. The CEO was fulfilling his role within that system - its called capitalism. Sometimes you want that - when it comes to selling goods in a competitive environment its by far the best way to ensure the best price for consumers and that production/supply keeps pace with demand. Otherwise you end up with soviet factories producing masses of the same type of shoe for everyone. What is weird is people/politicians (especially in America but elsewhere also) who decide that because private enterprise is really good at that one thing, we also need that "efficiency" elsewhere. So public services, utilities, healthcare will work more "efficiently" under private management than public management. They do, but full "efficiency" to a profit making healthcare company = a system where everyone pays for insurance but no-ones claims are allowed. Which one day I am sure they will achieve.

But killing one random guy won't make any difference to that issue and the shooter is crazy for thinking it will. Its like setting fire to your house and then complaining that the fire is evil because it burned everything and shooting into the flames in revenge. But American's have just elected a human flamethrower to public office so I guess they see things differently. Maybe the best way to fight fire is with fire. Meh.

Yes but United Healthcare of which he was the boss had the highest turn down rate in the business - so ethics in business also matter. It's not a binary choice between capitalism and communism.

The victim may have been the most evilest of men but he had two sons who are now left without a father. Why should two innocent boys be punished?

That's why I am against portraying the killer as any kind of hero.

So it was the most efficient company and therefore the best run.
I agree it isn't a choice between communism v capitalism. But the NHS and the systems countries like Europe have are not communism. The fact that it's portrayed in such a binary way by some in America, and the fact that people are encouraged to see this as a problem of one evil man/an unethical company rather than a profit driven service doing what profit driven service doing what profit driven services are literally designed to do is a big part of the problem.

Pay staff fairly, provide a good service, but healthcare should not be for profit. The US system is a truly shocking model.

I must admit I am very intrigued by this case. It's easy to see why it has captured the imagination and I hope for more interesting discussion on this thread to watch.

My ds was telling me about this. I don’t understand how anyone can support the killing of a human being. There are ways of making changes in a civilised society and this isn’t one of them. A certain section of the populace seem to have moved beyond the pale in their opinions in recent years.

If somebody here was profiting by millions from refusing treatment and causing pain, distress, death and financial ruin of hundreds of thousands of people every year - not because treatments are ineffective, not because they cannot be afforded, not because there is a truly limited budget, but specifically to make the most money possible - then you'd be wrong.

I have some slight sympathy towards Luigi despite condoning what he did if that makes sense? I don't understand it myself.

So one man with children is dead and another young man has shat all over his future bright career. It seems unlikely that this will effect change so who is the winner in any of this?