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Anyone else feeling annoyed at how backwards the world is going?

319 replies

Littlemissgobby · 04/12/2024 23:32

Heard on the radio about how so many women in Scandinavian countries are becoming trad wives.
These are not just stay at home mums these are believing in the whole men work and women stay at home . Very traditional gender split.
Then on the radio talking now how many young men are following reform. A backlash against feminism and of course same old thing angry young men are attracted to the far right as they tell them it's everyone else to blame for their problems.
Andrew tate bollox a form of radicalisation which farage has jumped on.
I just find all this depressing.
Even listening today about how them footballers didn't want a pride flag on their kit.
You can't catch being gay. We haven't even had a fully committed gay footballer at the top as there is alot of homophonia amongst fans
I just find this a backward slide do you?

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2024 02:10

The customer, gay rights activist Gareth Lee, sued the company for discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation and political beliefs.
But the bakery has always insisted its objection was to the message on the cake, not the customer.
Ashers lost the casese and the subsequent appealal, but on Wednesday the firm won its appeal at the Supreme Court.

Littlemissgobby · 05/12/2024 02:13

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2024 02:09

It wasn't "thrown out on a technicality". Our highest court ruled in favour.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45789759

That was in your first article Mr Lee then took his case to the European Court of Human Rights, where it was examined by seven judges who decided, by majority, that it should be dismissed.
The long-running dispute has raised questions about religious freedom and discrimination law.
'Gay cake' row: Q&A
Cake row referred to European Court
In their ruling on Thursday, the judges said the case was inadmissible because Mr Lee had not invoked his rights under the European Convention of Human Rights "at any point in the domestic proceedings" in the UK courts.
The judges decided that in order for a complaint to be admissible, "the Convention arguments must be raised explicitly or in substance before the domestic authorities".
Video caption,BBC News NI looks at the key dates in the "gay cake" case
"By relying solely on domestic law, the applicant had deprived the domestic courts of the opportunity to address any Convention issues raised, instead asking the court to usurp the role of the domestic courts.
"Because he had failed to exhaust domestic remedies, the application was inadmissible," said the ruling.
Mr Lee expressed disappointment that his case had been dismissed on a "technicality"

Cake

'Gay cake' row: What is the dispute about?

As the European Court of Human Rights rules on the dispute, BBC News NI looks at the background.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32065233

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2024 02:13

If you are getting to the point that a flag that represents gay and transpeople affects, you go on f*** luck in the mirror and realize there's something wrong with you

He's religious. We have freedom of belief in this country. If he were attacking gay people, he'd be in the wrong, but he isn't. He's entitled to not go along with a belief that he disagrees with.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2024 02:16

That was in your first article Mr Lee then took his case to the European Court of Human Rights, where it was examined by seven judges who decided, by majority, that it should be dismissed.

The Supreme Court of the U.K., the highest court in this country, has ruled in favour of Asher's Bakery as a freedom of speech issue. As it is.

Littlemissgobby · 05/12/2024 02:16

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2024 02:13

If you are getting to the point that a flag that represents gay and transpeople affects, you go on f*** luck in the mirror and realize there's something wrong with you

He's religious. We have freedom of belief in this country. If he were attacking gay people, he'd be in the wrong, but he isn't. He's entitled to not go along with a belief that he disagrees with.

You are fundamentally missing the point. Being gay is not a belief. It is just the same as being straight. A belief is believing in a stupid sky, fairy of a religious point of view
And while technically, he is able to express his viewpoint, his viewpoint is wrong.Because it is not a belief, is somebody that is gay, they are just the same as somebody that is straight

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2024 02:17

That's your opinion. That's a belief.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2024 02:18

I agree that being gay isn't a belief but you know that isn't what's being claimed Confused

Littlemissgobby · 05/12/2024 02:18

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2024 02:17

That's your opinion. That's a belief.

It's not my opinion that being gay is the same as being straight, because if it was a choice people would choose not to be gay, they would get a lot easier life. They wouldn't get the abuse, but it's not a choice

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2024 02:19

It's not my opinion that being gay is the same as being straight

I'm talking about your opinions about "sky fairies" and believing in them. I'm not religious either but it's not particularly respectful language, is it.

RawBloomers · 05/12/2024 02:20

I do think there has been a bit of a strangle hold on what has been considered acceptable to express views for a while, especially in mainstream media and that has hidden a lot of disagreement with the way society has seemed to be changing. Social media, which doesn’t have gatekeepers, has unleashed that and those voices have found audiences and grown. So I think there is a backlash, but I don’t think the change is as big as it seems. I think we’ve had a somewhat false view of how much agreement there has been with progressive values up to now.

But also - I heard a radio interview with a journalist recently who has been exploring the rising tide of support for Trump in the US and he found that many of the people who talked to from previously traditionally Democrat leaning populations are leaning towards Trump for two reasons - being taken for granted by the left and the stridency of activists from progressive movements. I know strident is a word often used in a sexist way against women, but in this case it was more BLM and LGBT (especially around trans right) activism and jumping down people’s throats if they used language that had become verboten within left wing circles. That many people who support Trump don’t necessarily disagree with gay rights, or women’s rights, or think white people really are better, they’re just sick of feeling harassed for getting on with their lives.

This rang a bell with me because a couple of decades ago there was research I saw in the US around whether the politics of someone’s roommate in the first year in college had any impact on their own politics after college. They found that there was no impact except in the case of people put in with highly activist left wing roommates, in that case the impact was to send people significantly to the right. That study had a big impact on my own actions (I’m a fairly active left winger) and totally changed the way I engage with people who don’t agree with me on progressive politics. I wish it had been as impactful on the left in the US in general, I don’t think the US would be where it is today if the Democrats hadn’t engaged in so much (somewhat unjustified) self-righteousness over Trump or if they had found a way to encourage nuanced discussion, or developed policy that really addressed the increasing disparity in income.

I see similar in the UK and note that Starmer realised, if he wanted to win, he had to tone down the rhetoric and not turn it into an us v. them game.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2024 02:21

And while technically, he is able to express his viewpoint, his viewpoint is wrong.

Yes it is, IMO but it is an opinion that he's legally entitled to hold.

Littlemissgobby · 05/12/2024 02:22

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2024 02:19

It's not my opinion that being gay is the same as being straight

I'm talking about your opinions about "sky fairies" and believing in them. I'm not religious either but it's not particularly respectful language, is it.

Maybe not but maybe it's get fed up with those hiding behind their religion .
A pride flag representing gay people isn't a problem
I do think we shpukd be discussing this stuff more.
They don't accept being gay and we should call this stuff out flag or no flag

OP posts:
Littlemissgobby · 05/12/2024 02:23

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2024 02:21

And while technically, he is able to express his viewpoint, his viewpoint is wrong.

Yes it is, IMO but it is an opinion that he's legally entitled to hold.

The law in this case is an ass

OP posts:
username299 · 05/12/2024 02:24

Some of this is personal choice,which is fine. If a woman wants to bake bread, make cheese and look after six children while her husband works, that's up to her.

The rise of the far right is more complex. Neoliberalism, wealth disparity and immigration have pushed many people to seek extremes in order to vent their frustration.

Social media is also indoctrinating people, it's capturing the young and creating extremism. The manosphere and far right have provided an outlet for anger.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2024 02:24

The law in this case is an ass

You think he should be legally forced to affirm an opinion he doesn't agree with?

WaylandNewt · 05/12/2024 02:24

RawBloomers · 05/12/2024 02:20

I do think there has been a bit of a strangle hold on what has been considered acceptable to express views for a while, especially in mainstream media and that has hidden a lot of disagreement with the way society has seemed to be changing. Social media, which doesn’t have gatekeepers, has unleashed that and those voices have found audiences and grown. So I think there is a backlash, but I don’t think the change is as big as it seems. I think we’ve had a somewhat false view of how much agreement there has been with progressive values up to now.

But also - I heard a radio interview with a journalist recently who has been exploring the rising tide of support for Trump in the US and he found that many of the people who talked to from previously traditionally Democrat leaning populations are leaning towards Trump for two reasons - being taken for granted by the left and the stridency of activists from progressive movements. I know strident is a word often used in a sexist way against women, but in this case it was more BLM and LGBT (especially around trans right) activism and jumping down people’s throats if they used language that had become verboten within left wing circles. That many people who support Trump don’t necessarily disagree with gay rights, or women’s rights, or think white people really are better, they’re just sick of feeling harassed for getting on with their lives.

This rang a bell with me because a couple of decades ago there was research I saw in the US around whether the politics of someone’s roommate in the first year in college had any impact on their own politics after college. They found that there was no impact except in the case of people put in with highly activist left wing roommates, in that case the impact was to send people significantly to the right. That study had a big impact on my own actions (I’m a fairly active left winger) and totally changed the way I engage with people who don’t agree with me on progressive politics. I wish it had been as impactful on the left in the US in general, I don’t think the US would be where it is today if the Democrats hadn’t engaged in so much (somewhat unjustified) self-righteousness over Trump or if they had found a way to encourage nuanced discussion, or developed policy that really addressed the increasing disparity in income.

I see similar in the UK and note that Starmer realised, if he wanted to win, he had to tone down the rhetoric and not turn it into an us v. them game.

there does seem to be a change in the winds of whats acceptable language and group think the past few years, as to the conclusion of it im guessing its heading to the type of philosophy of the crews from the star trek shows where its all encompassing and politically correct or a better may be example the thinking of people from the film demolition man, weather its good overall for society or weather society will accept the new group think im not sure.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2024 02:25

it's capturing the young and creating extremism.

That's really not all on the "far right" side.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2024 02:26

Sorry meant to quote you @username299

Littlemissgobby · 05/12/2024 02:26

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2024 02:24

The law in this case is an ass

You think he should be legally forced to affirm an opinion he doesn't agree with?

Maybe yes, on principle that being gay isn't a choice and hiding behind a religion is b, and maybe we should all be calling this s** out. People who have a religious viewpoint that says being gay is wrong.I think really?We need to be calling it out more

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2024 02:28

Maybe yes, on principle that being gay isn't a choice

When did he say it was a choice? He just doesn't want to be forced to make a statement he disagrees with.

ByMerryKoala · 05/12/2024 02:28

I'm not convinced that compelling people to agree with things that they don't believe in is the liberal progress that you seem to think it is @Littlemissgobby ?

username299 · 05/12/2024 02:28

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2024 02:26

Sorry meant to quote you @username299

I didn't say it was.

Littlemissgobby · 05/12/2024 02:28

ByMerryKoala · 05/12/2024 02:28

I'm not convinced that compelling people to agree with things that they don't believe in is the liberal progress that you seem to think it is @Littlemissgobby ?

There should be no belief because being gay or lesbian. Isn't a choice? It's not a belief, it's not a opinion, it's a fact

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2024 02:29

It was just an observation, because it wasn't being pointed out and I felt it was lacking, hth @username299

Littlemissgobby · 05/12/2024 02:30

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2024 02:28

Maybe yes, on principle that being gay isn't a choice

When did he say it was a choice? He just doesn't want to be forced to make a statement he disagrees with.

Let's get to the nitty gritty. What's the statement? The statement that being gay is okay. Because that's what pride flag represents, it doesn't represent anything else, but apart from that being gay lesbian, whatever is fine.
So when you get to the nitty grity of it, he really disagrees with that, which is why he doesn't want to wear it, which is why he wrote on it.
There was the other Christian the other day that did the same thing. Let's not kid ourselves

OP posts:
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