Young, British and Anti Abortion.

[TooBigForMyBoots]

I was half watching it last night and intend to watch properly later. The guy they featured was a misogynistic Incel type.

Did anyone else see it?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00256p2

Not watched, but nobody is forcing anyone to have an abortion, why can't we respect other people's right to chose across the board. I can't imagine anyone is gleeful at the prospect of having one, but sometimes it's the least bad option for woman and potential child.

Not watched it but yes the Republican Party are funding a shitload of shit going on in this country somebody else put a post up the other day about a particular group that is very anti-abortion they go round and put up massive signs up anyway I went on the website and also did some check-in and it turns out that they have a massive massive backing and money being pumped in from the Republican conservatives We need to be very careful in this country because I believe the Conservative party themselves who do buddy up to Donald Trump and all that and other people behind that these right wing think tanks are pumping in a lot of money to get people like this? A lot of misinformation too?

As somebody who is very pro choice I am concerned about these views gaining more traction in this country. I don't want us heading the same way as the US.

Follow the money American conservatives are funding it https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/us-anti-abortion-culture-war-uk-stella-creasy-amendement-/

Because they don’t see it as a personal decision like getting a tattoo or a haircut, they see it as murdering a human being. I can’t murder you and then say “well it was my choice to murder you”.

I’m pro choice myself but I can see their argument

You can't argue with stupid, and you can't reason with the unreasonable.

Yep. I’m in it. ☺️

I am one of the people interviewed on the documentary and personally know the other three young people featured. I can tell you right now that none of us, or our organisations, are receiving money from America. Please don’t spread such misinformation online without even watching the documentary or doing your research.

Hi @flagondry, thanks for coming on the thread.

Did you apply to go on it or were you chosen by your organisation to appear? What do you think of your experience being filmed?

Idiots! The lot of them. Women in Texas are dying in emergency rooms (this comment will likely be removed again, because somehow Mumsnet hates the facts when it comes to women's lives), because they are denied life-saving abortions when they miscarry.

Hey! The production company got in touch with my organisation and we decided to go for it. Poppy and the team were amazing. I really loved speaking with them and we spent a lot of time together although only a few short snippets of it was actually shown. I also think they fairly represented different perspectives within the anti-abortion movement. I think a lot of pro-abortion people tend to forget that we are all very good-intentioned people and really want the best for mothers, fathers and their babies. We hold our position from a point of equality and from a point of valuing every human life. It’s not that we are stupid or hate women, we simply follow the science and try to help as best we can. If anyone ever wants to speak to me about this further I am always open to chat, and if you or anyone you know ever is in a crisis pregnancy or is suffering after an abortion experience and needs help, please get in touch.
Eden x

I have a thread running in AIBU about one of the organisations featured -CBR UK. Their tactics are vile.

The aim of all these organisations is to get the 1967 abortion Act repealed ASAP.

There is a strong evangelical undercurrent to this groups motivation, with more than a hint of Satanic panic.

The reasons women have abortions are complex and sensitive and between them and their HCPs. The graphic imagery used amounts to psychological warfare, and the High Street is no place for it.

Religious zealotry has no place in legislation.

I watched the documentary and recall you being asked the following question but don't think you answered it: how can you think that it would be wrong to coerce or force a woman to have an abortion but think it would not be wrong to coerce or force a woman to continue an unwanted pregnancy? How can you reconcile those beliefs?

Yes I read that it’s horrible

As Kamala Harris said nobody is pro abortion nobody says oh go an abortion like it’s a sweet but everybody should have the right to decide what they want and I understand people who don’t agree with it on a religious basis well have your opinion but don’t intimidate women . Claiming you are praying for them funny enough you have to do it near the fucking abortion clinic though.

This whole debate comes down to 2 beliefs.

1. Do you believe the unborn are human?
2. Do you believe all innocent humans should have the equal right to life?

My answer to both these questions is yes. Whereas a pro-abortion advocate would disagree with one or both of the above beliefs. So put yourself in my shoes: you believe unborn humans are fully human and fully deserving of equal human rights - that includes the right not to be killed. With that being said, it is wrong to force someone to kill their unborn baby. But it is not wrong to force a mother not to kill her unborn baby. I hope this makes sense and answers your question! :)

Should a parent have the right to choose whether to bring a severely disabled child into the world? Should women be allowed to choose an abortion if they are at risk of dying in childbirth, or if they are addicted to drugs and damaging their baby? Those are some of the reasons for abortions after 24 weeks. The decision to allow abortion after 24 weeks is a balancing act. You can't say you can abort if the parent is at risk if dying, but you can't abort if the baby is likely to be severely disabled. One life isn't more valuable than the other.

There's around 200-300 abortions over 24 weeks in the UK annually, less than the US. Changing a law (for this reason which is the least contentious part of the prolife movement) seems extremely unlikely in the UK given the low numbers. We are also more secular than the US which further undermines the case for banning abortion outright. There just isn't the scientific evidence or the will for it.

I appreciate the point that the prolife movement raises about children with severe disabilities being given the chance of life, that's an area I think we should look at ourselves more closely about.

The anti-abortion position 100% makes sense if you believe human life begins at conception. If you believe human life begins at conception, then you will not make exceptions for rape or incest or anything else, because you see abortion as the murder of a human.

I don't agree with this position at all, but it is by no means 'stupid'.

I haven't watched the documentary, so I'm sorry if this was answered. But @flagondry, assuming you're a woman, have you ever been pregnant? Given birth? What about the other women in your organisation?

@flagondry
"Do you believe all innocent humans should have the equal right to life?"

Interesting that you have specified "innocent". Are you saying that some humans are innocent and others are guilty? A foetus is innocent and a pregnant woman is not, is that it?

If you believe in protecting human life at all costs, what if the only way to save a pregnant woman's life is to terminate the pregnancy? Whose life would you choose?

What about a woman with an unwanted pregnancy who is prevented from getting a safe, legal abortion, and out of desperation gets an unsafe abortion and then dies of complications? What about her life? Or does it not matter because she's not "innocent"?

@flagondry you keep calling people 'pro abortion'

It's pro choice.

Haha I was actually pregnant whilst filming but yes I’ve got two kids and sadly lost a baby. Had a c-section and a natural birth. And yes, the other women in my organisation have been pregnant and have kids.

Sorry for your loss.

I'm amazed that any woman who has been through pregnancy and childbirth thinks they have the right to impose those experiences on other women.

I'm also amazed that anyone who hasn't been through it thinks they have the right to a say in it.

The only person you have any right to make a decision for regarding abortion is yourself.

The choice of language here is disingenuous. Who is actually "pro abortion"? Nobody is campaigning for people to abort. Pro choice is about giving people bodily autonomy, not about ratcheting up abortion numbers. It is about wanting the best for people, following the science and respecting human life. Helping people as far as possible. Denial of rights to terminations simply cannot achieve those goals.