Young, British and Anti Abortion.

[TooBigForMyBoots]

I was half watching it last night and intend to watch properly later. The guy they featured was a misogynistic Incel type.

Did anyone else see it?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00256p2

I’m so pleased we live in a country where a woman has autonomy over her own body. Thank god (oh the irony) these religious fanatics don’t get to dictate.

I guess many of them also don’t agree with contraception….. madness

When Trump got in I was on a cruise - 99% USA citizens. One woman said she was going to celebrate. I questioned her about abortion. She said it was a woman's choice to get pregnant/have sex. I answered by saying, oh my body my choice then? Yes, she couldn't answer me could she?!

I cannot believe how many women of none child bearing age voted for Trump. Musk plays into anti abortion too with his 15 and counting kids...

Rushi Sunak dispensed with this really well when the question came up in the HoC - only good thing he did as a PM imo. Let's just stay with that, there is no need to say anything else.

The BBC, robbing everyone who isn't watching the BBC but live TV by forcing us to have a TV licence, should hang it's head in shame televising BS on British TV.

CBR UKs position in contraception is anything that prevents fertilisation is OK but anything that prevents a fertilised egg from implanting, ie the pill etc, is wrong. But what they really really want is for women to abstain and to stop promiscuity.

Of course they pay lip service to men and claim abortion is a tool of oppression used by men - which of course it can be. As is forced birthing.

The claim that dealing with ectopic pregnancy or medical treatment to save a woman that ends a pregnancy doesn't count as abortion is disingenuous in the extreme. Women die because no abortion in law means any time a pregnancy is ended, even unintentionally, it can be classed as abortion.

Women in other countries are imprisoned because they can't "prove" miscarriage.

In this country Women are still imprisoned if they are deemed to have procured an abortion illegally after 24 weeks. It's happened quite recently I believe, around the time of lockdown.

I doubt many, if any, women treat abortion lightly. Blame, shame, judgement and punishment on top of existing anguish isn't civilised. It reduces women to the status of stroppy incubators who don't know their place.

And no judgement on women who aren't traumatised or anguished by their choices either, because wishing that on anyone is also fucking awful, and that is what these people want.

They want women to remember their place. And that they'll never be forgiven for applegate.

I am absolutely pleased we live in a country a woman has control of their bodies .

i hate the term babies - it’s a fetus . Emotive language .

it misses the point of it can be damaging to current life , people living in poverty unable to support current children , abusive men trying to control women, genetic conditions , parents may have children with disabilities feel they can’t manage more , too young , too old - poor Mh .. The list is a snapshot ..

ultimately I don’t see how it could be classified as human when it can’t survive outside of the womb.

The Issue for me … people can have their own opinions however they don’t live with the consequences..

so yes I am pro choice.

I was relieved by how dim those featured in the documentary were and how ineffective their "movement" was. They clearly haven't thought through their positions and the implications very thoroughly. One of the women in particular seemed totally bewildered by any even slightly difficult questioning and would just stare into space in stunned silence.

They all seemed to believe that if only abortion were made illegal then every problem would be solved and none new created.

I expect if they get out of their bubble and perhaps meet some real women who have had abortions and hear about their reasons and experiences then their old views will seem silly and naive. People often change their views on a hair when the situation is made real to them or affects themselves or someone they know and love.

Eden, please have a look at joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/

Abortions are not only needed and wanted by pro-choice women but all women and you may be surprised how many hypocrites walk among you in your anti abortion ranks.

@flagondry

*This whole debate comes down to 2 beliefs.
**
• Do you believe the unborn are human?
• Do you believe all innocent humans should have the equal right to life? *

Yes! I disagree with you on point 2, because I think the moral position between conception and birth (or even later) is more complex.

I'm broadly "pro-choice" as a consequence of my thoughts on all these things.

But your framing is the right one. Claiming abortion is OK because it’s choice is fatuous.

Many things that are choices are not OK, while many are.

Many things belong in the private realm, many don't.

If it's (morally) murder then it remains so even it it's convenient, or even life-saving. So why is it not murder? I'm so often alarmed at how few people have answers to that.

Unless you have thought about those things seriously in our culture, you can't be sure you would have thought about them seriously in a Mayan child-sacrifice culture. Perhaps you're in the majority now because you'd have been in the majority then too.

Blinky21 · Yesterday 22:56

BBC shouldn't be giving a minority view like that a platform. I could make a documentary about any old crank view and legitimise it that way

Absolutely, this.
(And “Charles” was creepy as fuck)

I believe life begins at conception, and I am "against" abortion on religious grounds.

I am also against abortion bans. They very demonstrably cause harm.

For one, is there any other scenario where we legally compel someone to use their body as a life support machine for another human being?

Secondly, before we even get into actually discussing abortion itself, I don't know how any "pro-life" campaigner can justify abortion bans when confronted with women who die from miscarriages as a result of abortion bans. If they can find a way to totally prevent that happening, then they can move on to talking about actual abortions. But as far as I can tell, they don't seem to care about these women dying.

As I said, I feel abortions are a bad thing. I direct my money and volunteering time to charities relating to poverty and domestic abuse - both things that are massive reasons for women getting abortions. I feel this is the most Christian way to prevent abortions.

I am perfectly aware that there are women get abortions for no other reason than they just don't want to have the baby, with no influences from factors like poverty. Fine. There are plenty of other things to worry about in the world before I can begin even forming an opinion on that. I am glad such women are able to seek those procedures safely in this country rather than die as a result of dodgy abortions.

That's fine have that opinion but don't go on marches with posters trying to intimidate other women. Now we have a buffer zone . Opinions fine trying to push it on vulnerable women no

Not sure why my post quoted you @Silvan, sorry!

No, it doesn't come down to those two questions of belief. There's a third question: should anyone be obliged to loan out their own body, for months at a time and with lifelong consequences to their body, as a life support machine and shelter to another person?

If you answer "no, no one should be obliged to be life support for someone else", then the other two questions don't even matter.

But also even if she believes what she does and you believe what you do which i agree with by the way.

Doesn't matter because no one should be interfering with anyone own body. No protests no signs etc have your opinions but to try and enforce that that's wrong

I've always been pro choice. I have a small number of reasons I would abort but they are my personal reasons.

However, when I was 35 weeks pregnant with my son, I was told he would be born with severe brain damage and was offered a termination. Disability is not one of the reasons on my personal list, so I chose to go ahead with the pregnancy.

A week later, I gave birth to a perfectly healthy baby boy. Now I'm left wondering how many women have had abortions late in their pregnancy (due to being told the baby would be disabled) and have, in fact, aborted perfectly healthy babies.

murderers lack empathy and the regard for other beings. I definitely didn't lack regard for that baby.

This is very movingly put @TY78910

I haven't watched it. I don't think I'll waste my time seeing how one of the shows participants has commented on here.

I have had an abortion and should I fall victim to a failure of contraception then I shall have another. I consider myself very fortunate to be in a county where this is my legal right. I do not feel ashamed, nor will I ever, for my abortion. I have no regrets. I have been called a child murderer and similar by anti-abortionists before but it has no impact, they can crow all they like.

If (I don't think it will) abortion were ever to be banned here in the UK I can't see many women just sitting there and accepting it, I think there would be mass rioting and I for one would be joining in.

It’s not that we are stupid or hate women, we simply follow the science and try to help as best we can.

No, that doesn't follow. Follow this logic:

Places that outlaw abortion altogether have more abortions than countries where it's safe, free and legal.

You either want to:

Ban abortion OR
Disapprove of it but not ban it.

If you disapprove, just shut up. Because women are perfectly capable of judging their own choices. If you want to ban it, you are stupid because that means a greater number of unsafe, illegal abortions. Dead babies in your currency.

The way to prevent abortion, and it's blindingly obvious:

More women's rights
More and better sex education
More and better free contraception
More and better childcare, healthcare, women's refuges, women's housing, women's services all over.

If you are GENUINELY committed to fewer abortions, campaign for those things. Don't mention abortion. Just quietly go about the business of making fewer happen.

And BTW, I used to take pregnant, homeless, frequently addicted, often abused mums into my home, house them for a year, work with them to raise their baby. It was a local program. For years I did that. THAT'S what someone who cares about women and babies does. Don't mention abortion, just do work that allows women to keep their babies if they want to.

I am pro-choice but in America the pro-life movement is literally driven by Catholic women, and really always has been.

Tbh men are more agnostic about it,
which makes sense as they don’t really care unless it personally affects
them

It's simply about control of women. In any other situation in life it is not illegal to defend yourself from harm. If someone broke into your home with and threatened you with a knife you wouldn't be acting illegally if you happened to kill them whilst defending yourself. Even if you'd accidentally left your door unlocked.
Women are put at great risk when they carry babies and give birth. Women who have even completely seemingly healthy normal pregnancies can die or be maimed during childbirth.
Yet there are people out there who think that in this one circumstance Women should be forced legally not to defend their own bodies by accessing abortion. There is no other situation in life where this would be enforced. And this is especially true in America where people can carry bloody guns around to supposedly defend themselves.... yet Women apparently have a complete duty to host babies inside them they did not want to have.. and in doing so place their bodies at risk.
This isn't about believing fetuses are human and have a right to life. It's about the 'duty' of women.. and how their right to life and physical safety is less than any potential child's.
Men aren't forced to donate organs to dying kids in hospital.. innocent kids who will die without the donation.. because it's understood people have rights over their own body and their bodies can't be used against their will.. it's understood until it applies to women who fall pregnant. Then it all goes out the window. And it's about attitudes towards women.
It has nothing to do with the unborn fetuses even tho these groups say it does.. because they do not enforce that in any other circumstance where it might apply.. only on the pregnant women.

It has nothing to do with the unborn fetuses even tho these groups say it does

You are really just wrong though. They really DO believe it’s an individual human being and go from that basis.

I happen to think they are right, just that it’s not worth it to me to force people unprepared to become parents into it. For me, it’s about protecting society over individual human beings.

I kind of hate always having to articulate the pro-life position (since I’m against it) but you should understand what they really think rather than create a strawman that isn’t really representative of their views

If they believe that then why is it only applied to babies in the womb? And no other group of people? It's clearly not just about them being alive but also about the mother and what they feel the duty of women is. Because as I've said, they do not go about suggesting people should be legally forced to donate organs to dying children in hospital. They respect people bodily autonomy then.. it's literally just when the child is inside a woman. Then the woman has to be forced to lend her body to the survival of the child... why? If its about children dying then why isn't everyone forced to save the lives of children? Why isn't everyone legally forced to donate blood and organs to sick children?
It's only women they focus on.. because it's about what they feel is the role of women and their duty. It's not about the children's lives.

The same sort of people (I’m talking about the pro-life lobby) tend to be anti death penalty too. They are annoying like that lol (I’m pro-choice and pro-death penalty)

They just don’t see it like you do: they see an actual human being.

I don’t even agree with them, and I see your argument over ‘why don’t they force people to donate blood’ as really not the same.

From their perspective, nobody is getting killed in the examples you provide. whereas here, they see a direct human hand interfering in a natural process and killing an individual person.

All you need to do is just say, I don’t care. The life of people already here matter more. End of discussion

So if you became pregnant straight after your c section you would carry that baby?

You would risk womb rupture and leaving your in utero baby dead, you dead and your children motherless.

Fair enough if you want to take that risk. That’s your right. By my god you can go to hell if you think that’s a choice you can make for other women.

They aren't directly being killed.. they are being removed from the life support system. But unfortunately they cannot survive outside of the body. In most abortions anyway.. the early ones. And later term abortion where a fetus would actually be killed inside the body are rare anyway and only take place in extreme circumstances of medical need.
So if you take pills to have an abortion all that's happening is the fetus is ejected from your body. It cannot survive that so dies. In my eyes it's exactly the same as not donating blood or organs to a dying child. You are just chosing not to give your body or parts of your body to support another human and as a result of that they die.
I'm my eyes you should be under no legal obligation to give anyone the use of your body if you don't want to.
The pills you take to have an abortion do not kill the fetus they just put your body into premature labour. The fetus dues because it is removed from your body abd without being inside your body it cannot survive. You haven't 'murdered' it, you've simply refused to let it use your body to survive and as a result it's died.

I would join the riots too. I’m pregnant with a girl at the moment. Absolutely not way I will sit back and watch us go back to the dark ages of no reproductive healthcare.

A relative's baby (much wanted) had no brain. Do you think she should have carried on with her pregnancy?

Had her baby been born he/she would have lived a matter of hours.

All pregnancies have risks for the mother, sometimes a pregnancy is toxic or is ectopic. In these cases if you give equal rights to a foetus then you actually give more rights to a foetus than the woman carrying it.

What good did Savita Halappanavar's death do?