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Young, British and Anti Abortion.

291 replies

TooBigForMyBoots · 21/11/2024 15:32

I was half watching it last night and intend to watch properly later. The guy they featured was a misogynistic Incel type.

Did anyone else see it?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00256p2

BBC One - Young, British and Anti-Abortion

Film-maker Poppy Jay explores whether Gen Z are galvanising the UK anti-abortion movement.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00256p2

OP posts:
Liv999 · 22/11/2024 07:35

Itsmeamandaberry · 21/11/2024 23:30

@flagondry just an FYI as a woman who has a termination. I did not murder/kill any baby and I'm disgusted by your language choices.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it, she's also entitled to her opinion like it or not

MistressoftheDarkSide · 22/11/2024 07:36

Much love to those who have shared their personal and harrowing experiences here. The toll of these should never be underestimated nor the grit and determination it requires to fight for oneself in the face of punitive bureaucracy, when its message seems to be that as a woman, you are the least worthy of support and most deserving of punishment for simply existing. I hold sorrow for those women who have been murdered / killed due to state sanctioned lunacy - if pro-lifers can use those terms then why shouldn't we?

I am opposed to the death penalty due to the possibility of miscarriages of justice. I may be considered a hypocrite by some, but I really don't think it's comparable.

Each situation where abortion is used is unique to the individual concerned.

I appreciate systemic solutions to societal and legal issues must have a standardised approach considered broadly acceptable by society, but they must also have scope for mitigation in each case and be subject to monitoring and review.

I am conflicted on the subject of assisted dying, as my biggest fears are slippery slopes and mission creep. It is ironic that suicide is being considered as acceptable when many consider it taboo because "God". But it does lean into personal rights and autonomy.

Often until one faces their particular and unique circumstances it is impossible to be aware of the nuances involved.

It is jarring to live in a world where contradiction is the order of the day.

In an ideal world none of these complex issues would need to exist, but humans are complex and Utopia for one can easily be hell for another.

Religion breeds orthodoxy, dogma, inquisition and death. It can so easily become a tool of oppression and power based on the possibility of unproveable consequences. It is replete with hypocrisy and paradox at every turn, and can reflect darkness dressed up as light.

The debate about how and why we are here is interesting and can never be settled but suffering of any kind that can be minimised and mitigated, should be.

The idea that people benefit from suffering is repugnant and underpins much religious orthodoxy. Essentially it's sadism dressed up as a greater, mysterious good.

Yes, we learn from it all, but what many people learn is to pass on their own suffering to the next available target. A pro-lifer may shout "gotcha" at this point but it's never that simple.

The lesser of two evils, the way to hell, the law of unintended consequences .... we all muddle through, and we all bear the consequences, we all learn and we all wonder why and how.

But women are worthy of as much consideration and compassion post birth as they are within the womb.

One of the pro-lifers I was arguing with used the argument that most abortions are of female fetuses as part of their gotcha moment. My brain is still pretzel shaped from that one.

Beezknees · 22/11/2024 07:37

Liv999 · 22/11/2024 07:35

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it, she's also entitled to her opinion like it or not

And we're also entitled to call out this pro life bullshit.

FlatWhiteExtraHot · 22/11/2024 07:43

Fetchthevet · 22/11/2024 07:25

All well and good until you think about the alternative - forcing women to do something with their body that they don't want to. How can any woman be pro that? You seriously think it's OK to put the 'needs' of a barely developed fetus before those of a fully functioning adult, who has a fully developed brain and their own ideas, beliefs, wants and needs?

No, because I agreed with the whole post including the bit that said “I’m pro choice” so don’t put words in my mouth. What I’m also majorly pro is unwanted babies not being conceived in the first place. Better access to and education around contraception and fertility would be a good start.

I absolutely believe that babies are people from the time of conception; if they’re not then why bother with prenatal care, why stop smoking or drinking when pregnant, why get attached to them, give them names, talk about “much loved babies”, mourn them when they are miscarried or stillborn?

Jimmyspiano · 22/11/2024 07:43

If pro life organisations are so keen to stop abortion, why are they not putting their funds into improving services for families with children who have severe disabilities, low income families and families affected by addiction? Why are they not campaigning to improve the way family courts are run? Women do not have abortions for the fun of it. They do it to protect themselves, their babies and their other children from pain, poverty, abuse and exhaustion.

RingoJuice · 22/11/2024 07:51

Tiker · 22/11/2024 07:29

The forced birthers are playing the long game like they did in the USA. I have noticed quite a lot of anti abortion posts on here in the last few years. Often starting as a seemingly innocent question about reducing the time limits.

As what has happened in the US shows, women’s rights to abortion are not a given. Don’t give these misogynistic men and their handmaids the time of day or engage in polite debate. They want to destroy our rights and give no fucks about actual living women and children.

I think the classic progressive mistake is to assume there is some sort of ‘arc of history’. There is not. So things you may think are sort of ‘done and dusted’ can be relitigated if certain conditions change, and things will end up looking cyclical from a broader POV

For instance, China used to be very pro-abortion. But due to the baby bust, they are stepping back and quietly looking at ways to reduce what they call ‘non-medical’ abortions (ie electives). I don’t think any policy has been put into place but it’s an example how social changes necessitate a re-look at social convention.

PoupeeGonflable · 22/11/2024 07:59

... a lot of pro-abortion people tend to forget that we are all very good-intentioned people and really want the best for mothers, fathers and their babies...
No, you don't. You say you 'follow the science', yet don't understand that a clump of dividing, unsentinent, unviable cells are not yet a human

Fetchthevet · 22/11/2024 07:59

FlatWhiteExtraHot · 22/11/2024 07:43

No, because I agreed with the whole post including the bit that said “I’m pro choice” so don’t put words in my mouth. What I’m also majorly pro is unwanted babies not being conceived in the first place. Better access to and education around contraception and fertility would be a good start.

I absolutely believe that babies are people from the time of conception; if they’re not then why bother with prenatal care, why stop smoking or drinking when pregnant, why get attached to them, give them names, talk about “much loved babies”, mourn them when they are miscarried or stillborn?

At no point did I put words in your mouth. For what it's worth, when I had a miscarriage at 6 weeks I didn't mourn it at all. It was at 6 weeks, and to me it wasn't a person. We all see things in different ways which is why choice is so important - obviously.

Liv999 · 22/11/2024 08:02

Beezknees · 22/11/2024 07:37

And we're also entitled to call out this pro life bullshit.

Nobody is saying otherwise? We need to respect other people's opinions

RingoJuice · 22/11/2024 08:05

PoupeeGonflable · 22/11/2024 07:59

... a lot of pro-abortion people tend to forget that we are all very good-intentioned people and really want the best for mothers, fathers and their babies...
No, you don't. You say you 'follow the science', yet don't understand that a clump of dividing, unsentinent, unviable cells are not yet a human

Individual human life begins at conception. We can recognize that fact and still say abortion is okay, because it was positive social effects.

Like euthanasia is a deliberate cessation of human life, but we can recognize it has social benefits.

(Likewise I advance that the death penalty has social benefits too)

PoupeeGonflable · 22/11/2024 08:07

RingoJuice · 22/11/2024 08:05

Individual human life begins at conception. We can recognize that fact and still say abortion is okay, because it was positive social effects.

Like euthanasia is a deliberate cessation of human life, but we can recognize it has social benefits.

(Likewise I advance that the death penalty has social benefits too)

And those social benefits for the death penalty are?

MistressoftheDarkSide · 22/11/2024 08:10

RingoJuice · 22/11/2024 08:05

Individual human life begins at conception. We can recognize that fact and still say abortion is okay, because it was positive social effects.

Like euthanasia is a deliberate cessation of human life, but we can recognize it has social benefits.

(Likewise I advance that the death penalty has social benefits too)

I don't think the possibility of being executed when you're innocent is a social benefit, personally.

ChillysWaterBottle · 22/11/2024 08:10

Horrific. The forced pregnancy and forced birth movement is harmful, regressive, dangerous and misogynistic. The more I listen to them talk the clearer this becomes. There is something so anti-human about, so lacking in normal human empathy and insight.

The idea of forcing women to give birth is so chilling.

ChillysWaterBottle · 22/11/2024 08:13

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 22/11/2024 00:42

No, it doesn't come down to those two questions of belief. There's a third question: should anyone be obliged to loan out their own body, for months at a time and with lifelong consequences to their body, as a life support machine and shelter to another person?

If you answer "no, no one should be obliged to be life support for someone else", then the other two questions don't even matter.

Exactly!!

Beezknees · 22/11/2024 08:14

Liv999 · 22/11/2024 08:02

Nobody is saying otherwise? We need to respect other people's opinions

No we don't at all. Who says that we do? Why should I respect misogynistic opinions?

Lookingoutside · 22/11/2024 08:33

Liv999 · 22/11/2024 07:35

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it, she's also entitled to her opinion like it or not

Being entitled to an opinion doesn't protect said opinion from being brainless and harmful. Like it or not.

Gorgonemilezola · 22/11/2024 08:35

'We need to respect other people's opinions'

No. We need to respect their right to have an opinion. Completely different thing.

PastaAndChill · 22/11/2024 08:38

There's no need to be so defensive and blasé about ending a life. We don't know if the foetus/baby suffers. It feels unfair to refuse to acknowledge that.

Sadly, women do get pregnant when they don't want to be, either through their own choices or being raped, and I think abortion should be legal because the alternative is terrible.

Also, unfortunately there is little balance in this debate, because most pro-choice people have no empathy for the foetus and most anti-choice people have no empathy for women. It's not really about "life" at all for the majority of people; it's about politics and religion. Otherwise their views would be much more consistent across the board, on both sides of the argument.

Completelyjo · 22/11/2024 08:43

PastaAndChill · 22/11/2024 08:38

There's no need to be so defensive and blasé about ending a life. We don't know if the foetus/baby suffers. It feels unfair to refuse to acknowledge that.

Sadly, women do get pregnant when they don't want to be, either through their own choices or being raped, and I think abortion should be legal because the alternative is terrible.

Also, unfortunately there is little balance in this debate, because most pro-choice people have no empathy for the foetus and most anti-choice people have no empathy for women. It's not really about "life" at all for the majority of people; it's about politics and religion. Otherwise their views would be much more consistent across the board, on both sides of the argument.

I think this is a woefully misguided comment. Most pro choice people have no empathy for the foetus? What a disgusting comment, and based on what?
The majority of people who are pro choice will probably never actually have an abortion for their own reasons.
The majority of women who do have an abortion already have other children so have gone through successful pregnancies and so most likely have a great deal of empathy for the foetus.

TheDisillusionedAnarchist · 22/11/2024 08:43

If you meet a 'pro life' activist with two kidneys you know they are misogynist hypocrite and not genuinely pro life. Some I know aren't even regular blood donors,

Kidney donation is the perfect analogy though. If you believe human life is so precious that others should have to take risks with their own body and life in order to preserve it including a small risk of death, lifelong changes, temporary pain then you would be a living donor.

Otherwise you really just think babies are sweet and women should be punished for having sex or you don't think at all or you have wider political motivations for example increasing the supply of infants for adoption. Certainly you care nothing for women or their babies born or unborn.

RingoJuice · 22/11/2024 08:46

PoupeeGonflable · 22/11/2024 08:07

And those social benefits for the death penalty are?

Society doesn’t have to keep paying for the continued upkeep of a convicted murderer?

Pretty huge benefit if you ask me, I don’t want to pay to keep dangerous people in a cage under 24/7 security and pay for their food, housing and medical care.

I just want them gone, buried and forgotten about.

ImWearingPantaloons · 22/11/2024 08:48

Banning abortion or limiting access to it won't make it go away, there will always be women who will actively seek it out for a number of reasons.

The choice is pretty stark: provide it safely, or provide it dangerously- but it WILL happen.

My great aunt watched her mother bleed to death after an abortion which was performed in the kitchen by a 'woman that knew how...'

Is that what pro lifers want?

Beezknees · 22/11/2024 08:48

RingoJuice · 22/11/2024 08:46

Society doesn’t have to keep paying for the continued upkeep of a convicted murderer?

Pretty huge benefit if you ask me, I don’t want to pay to keep dangerous people in a cage under 24/7 security and pay for their food, housing and medical care.

I just want them gone, buried and forgotten about.

If you look at the figures from the USA it actually costs more to execute someone than it does to keep them in prison because of all the legal proceedings.

Completelyjo · 22/11/2024 08:49

RingoJuice · 22/11/2024 08:46

Society doesn’t have to keep paying for the continued upkeep of a convicted murderer?

Pretty huge benefit if you ask me, I don’t want to pay to keep dangerous people in a cage under 24/7 security and pay for their food, housing and medical care.

I just want them gone, buried and forgotten about.

It is well documented that the death penalty is more costly than life sentences.
So ultimately your opinion isn’t actually based on any fact or evidence, merely “I just want them gone”.

Completelyjo · 22/11/2024 08:50

Absolutely baffles me that anyone can look at the death penalty states from the UK and thinks “yeah I’ll have a bit of that please”.
Crazy.

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