Uni suicide - tragedy but is this the only recourse for women that experience assault ?

[mids2019]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14060637/Oxford-University-student-20-killed-cancelled-female-friend-told-pals-felt-uncomfortable-sexual-encounter.hotlink

Superficially this is a tragedy and the sites is was the major factor for that led to it. However given the extremely low probability of criminal conviction of the university acting from a disciplinary point of view are women justified in using ostracism as the only till they have left for justice and as a warning to others that may consider assault a crime where there are in reality limited chance of consequence?

The woman concerned comes across as psychologically cruel and the coroner warns against 'cancel culture' but there seems more to this and perhaps the woman concerned was justified in talking to their friendship group at the very least as warning to other woemn?

Is this the social equivalent of a lunch mob with no proven guilt or the actions of a woman who knew there is typically no justice from authorities in such cases?

You are being ridiculous: you understand full well what I am saying.

I have no further desire to play chess with a pigeon. Goodbye, poster with the unimaginative name

Don't let me keep you from shaking your fist at clouds.

Have you read the actual report?

So far as I can see it's not yet been published.

Oh, and given that the coroner specifically described the series of events to include Alexander and B (the young woman) having sex on 11th Jan, I would be very surprised by such a “clarification”

Don’t let me keep you from being wrong, sweetie 😘

Off you go! It's getting dark.

I'm going by the newspapers:

A coroner has called on the government to examine the prevalence of “cancel culture” on university campuses.

As I thought, though at least it's not the Mail.

I'm waiting until I can check it to the source document.

That's good to know.

It is the Independent though 🙄

Amazing how many people come on here ‘knowing’ ‘facts’ that contradict the Coroner.

I am not sure that Dr Dominique Thompson’s review undertaken for Corpus Christi college will be made public .

Obviously if government does a full review of university culture after the coroner’s request, that will be public and based on many universities and take several years,

Chances are she won't give a rap.

And you are basing this on what?

The fact that the only word attached to her experience with this 20yo young man is 'uncomfortable'.

I am taking from that that it was of relative insignificance and the fact that she didn't report it to authorities also makes me think this. There is a fair chance that her actions were about attracting attention as much as anything, going on what she did after this 'uncomfortable' encounter.

I would like to think that her behaviour is being examined very very closely as it's rare that the 'detail' of news reports like these are not given and in this particular news report, it certainly is not.

B was not on trial at the coroner’s inquest.

The exact word wasn’t uncomfortable, if you read the articles linked. The coroner noted that B had “expressed discomfort”

That’s it. She told a few friends a day or two after a sexual encounter something along the lines that she wasn’t comfortable with what had happened. Why do you think that was about “attracting attention”?

Have you seen that in the note Alexander wrote to his friends that he had done something unintentional but unforgivable? That doesn’t sound like he felt that all was well.

This sort of exclusionary behaviour isn't restricted to Corpus, hence the prevention of future death report by the coroner. Ask any undergraduate at Oxford. But it does seem relatively new as a thing.

Whatever was written in the note, it was written under conditions of extraordinary mental stress. This boy clearly just wanted to rectify a situation which was either bad, or perceived by others to be bad. The reporting leaves everything wide open to different interpretations depending on one's bias.

@Hoppinggreen the advice around requiring enthusiastic consent is good advice. One issue, which I have seen play out time and time again though, is that both parties are very drunk. It's not clear either can assess or give enthusiastic consent- and that's where things get very messy.

There was a post on here a while back from a woman who had a moment of dawning that she had made a sexual move on a guy (grabbed him clumsily) when they were both drunk and in bed together, and he drew back- she felt terrible, but some people on the thread felt it was sexual assault and others felt it wasn't as she immediately stopped. I mean someone has to make a move on someone else and there's always a chance that it is unwanted, very few drunk people or people in the moment are able to list the things they do and don't agree to in advance.

Which young person? The girl? The friends who she told and who knew she was ipset? The boy? The friends who knew he was upset? The people who alienated him having decided he was guilty of whatever it was?

The boy who took his own life.

A. could have called samaritans. Reached out to pastoral support. Gone home. The uni could have more posters up with samaritans numbers on etc. He could have learned from his actions which made a person uncomfortable

My post was in response to this one by cestlavielife, whose name I see I misspelt.

This whole thread is making me pretty sad.

B had sex with Alexander on the 11th and wasn’t comfortable with it afterwards. She told friends, some of whom were male and one of whom was her ex.

Her ex, a man, got into a physical altercation with Alexander afterwards. Two of their ( mutual, presumably) male friends went to talk to him about it on the 14th. It is their actions after that chat which are being described as ostracism.

The next day, Alexander wrote a note regretting his actions and jumped from a bridge.

And somehow the person many posters are blaming for the outcome is B? No real mention of the male friends other than the fight, but B is a manipulator, attention seeker, etc - because she talked to her friends about something.

It's beyond sad that no-one in the college noticed he was missing for a number of days. The whole thing is desperate, for everyone involved.

People like Alexander who commit suicide are suffering from mental ill health and not behaving rationally, so it’s pointless trying to rationalise the situation and even more inappropriate to try to apportion blame on anyone.

Did you know him well?

Just saying "mental health" is a cop out, an attempt to dismiss poor behaviour and victim blame.

Whether or not this was the catalyst, behaving in a way that shames and bullies a person is a terrible thing to do when there are so many other ways to deal with this kind of situation.