Uni suicide - tragedy but is this the only recourse for women that experience assault ?

[mids2019]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14060637/Oxford-University-student-20-killed-cancelled-female-friend-told-pals-felt-uncomfortable-sexual-encounter.hotlink

Superficially this is a tragedy and the sites is was the major factor for that led to it. However given the extremely low probability of criminal conviction of the university acting from a disciplinary point of view are women justified in using ostracism as the only till they have left for justice and as a warning to others that may consider assault a crime where there are in reality limited chance of consequence?

The woman concerned comes across as psychologically cruel and the coroner warns against 'cancel culture' but there seems more to this and perhaps the woman concerned was justified in talking to their friendship group at the very least as warning to other woemn?

Is this the social equivalent of a lunch mob with no proven guilt or the actions of a woman who knew there is typically no justice from authorities in such cases?

There is no opportunity now to take a case to the police, through the CPS and to court. Who is it you think would have “acknowledged it as such”?

Not wanting to speculate on this particular case but if a University knows about something they can at least offer support to all involved which may or may not be taken up or affect the outcome but has to be preferable.

i wonder whether this sort of thing is really anything specific to Oxford and has anything to do with being "woke"? I see a lot of "friend drama" and ostracism in my teenager's friendship group and other parents I know say the same.

I really feel for everybody involved and I think it is utterly irresponsbile of the coroner and the media to be attributing blame for that young man's suicide.

Have you actually read what the coroner said?

I agree the press is being irresponsible.

@Angrymum22

None of the quotes are direct from the young woman. The coroner noted that she had “expressed discomfort”

To note, after the sexual incident, Alexander had written to friends expressing “remorse for his actions and a belief that they were unintentional but unforgivable”,

To me, I wouldn’t read that as a response to an “alpha male” situation. I will leave it there with you and your posts,

This

What did he do OP?

And why is there a shunning culture among teens and young adults? Where do these restrictive dynamics stem from? I don't remember this from 'my youth'.

There's always been bullying. Giving someone the cold shoulder and ostracizing people is common. Now it's apparently due to wrong think. There's been a problem in universities for years where those with the wrong thoughts have been deplatformed or there's been a witchhunt.

There is a big difference between deciding to distance yourself from someone whose behaviour you disapprove of, and actively seeking to silence people from speaking, demanding their talks are cancelled, blocking entrance to buildings, drowning them out with loudspeakers, writing to their employer demanding they be sacked…

Agree with above. I can even remember an incident at my time at university which did split a friendship group. I don't remember any expectation of having to side with one and shun the other and we were "allowed" to be seen talking to either individual without any social consequences.

I have a ds too.

On one hand I'm glad men think about what they do and say but on the other I have a 20yo ds who says it's so sad that nowadays he wouldn't hug a crying female friend if they were upset because it could backfire on him in a irreparable way.

He explains it in a way that a female friend would just hug a female friend. He would want consent in front of witnesses and he said then it feels less like comfort and more permission to comfort and then feels false.

It feels like the lines that needed to be drawn have actually blurred the issue further. But I don't have the answer to that.

But I do know that any feeling of anxiousness, uncomfortableness etc nowadays is seems as discomfort and anxiety rather than normal feelings we have to work though. I'm wondering if that's what the judge was getting at saying cancel culture has gone too far. Everything is black and white nowadays in peoples eyes when in reality most things are in the grey area and can be worked through. But SM has diminished communication skills to a degree too.

The whole case is sad. No ones lives will be the same from it.

@itsgettingweird I do not believe the coroner himself used the phrase 'cancel culture' or said anything about it 'going too far'. The DM in particular blurs the lines somewhat in reporting on the coroner's inquest and the serious incident review, by using the word 'inquiry'.

Following the death, Corpus Christi College mounted a Serious Incident Review, conducted by Dr. Dominique Thompson, a specialist mental health GP.

'She identified a concerning culture of social ostracism, certainly within an element of the student body,' said the Coroner.
'This culture, described as a form of 'cancel culture,' involved the exclusion of students from social circles based on allegations of misconduct, often without due process or a fair hearing.

But SM has diminished communication skills to a degree too.

To note, two of the mutual friends (C and E in the DM article) went to Alexander's room to discuss the matter face to face. In this particular case, I don't think social media played any part.

An independent investigation found a culture of bullying at the university. That goes beyond distancing yourself from a friend. We have to allow for common sense.

The investigation was into the college, not the university, and was commissioned by the college.

'This culture, described as a form of 'cancel culture,' involved the exclusion of students from social circles based on allegations of misconduct, often without due process or a fair hearing.

What is the due process required before they accept your decision to exclude a student from your social circle? Do they also require a ‘due process’ to split up with a boyfriend? Due you have to submit notes to the university to prove due process was followed?

The coroner asked the government to look into cancel culture in universities.

Yy Trumpton - it’s unclear what Dr Thompson thought students should do, from the excerpts quoted. But I also imagine the DM has been rather selective in quoting.

He has just requested this, last week, after his hearing.

Your post talked about report findings. The findings that have been made thus far were about Corpus Christi College, not the University of Oxford or universities in general.

Oh, and the DM article quotes the coroner as saying " My proposal is to write a prevention of future death report to the Department for Education asking them to reflect on the concerns that have arisen in this case and asking them to take those concerns forward"

Again, no use of the phrase 'cancel culture' by the coroner.

I said this:

An independent investigation found a culture of bullying at the university.

You're being pedantic for some reason because you're perfectly aware that the victim was at university.

A college at Oxford is a place where students live, work, socialise and have small group tutorials. There are something like 30 colleges, different sizes, some post graduate only etc.

The University provides lectures, labs, examinations etc.

It is entirely possible for one college to have certain issues and the next door college not to have those issues.

The GP who undertook the review did so for, in and about the college, not the university.

I am 100% NOT being pedantic. You are simply incorrect.

The girl has apparently clarified that there was no sex involved. She just felt uncomfortable with a minor encounter 🤷‍♀️

Source?

He was at university, the college is a place in university. Unless of course you're now arguing that a college is outside university.