Looks like Trump could win?

[Kittykat86]

It's looking good for Trump. My dad is a total Trump hater and has been convinced that he won't win, especially since Kamala took over.
I don't know how the system works but is it too early to say that Trump is going to win?

Actually I hope this too.

Europe deserves more than to be hangers-on of US policy.

You deserve to write your own history, not just be mere observers to Chinese, American and Russian actions.

I actually really wish that for you

Not comparing anything. Stating a fact. The Nazis were democratically elected.

As was Putin in 2000, with 53% of the vote.

In some cases we know the votes are rigged with Dictators calling an election and getting 97% of the vote. But that wasn't the case with Hitler, it hasn't been the case with Trump.

IMO Trump told a pack of lies to get himself elected but enough people were happy to believe his lies and also overlook his other misdemeanours or outright crimes.

I cannot understand them but not understanding something doesn't make it untrue.

Due to the UKUSA agreement, the UK and the US are strongly bound together in a mutual security pact that transcends NATO. The minor political spats that occur over time are pretty much a sideshow for public consumption compared with the real common ground that binds the UK and the US together.

Even people like Trump and Starmer realise they are pretty transient compared with the near century long agreements that have been in place between the US and the UK on matters such as signals intelligence, weapons and technology sharing and nuclear security.

compared with the real common ground that binds the UK and the US together.

Tell us what that is. It's a genuine question. The only time I can think of when the UK went to war with Russia was the Crimean War and I suspect that was as much as promoting the Great Game keeping Russia away from the the Raj.

I doubt whether USSR/Russia was particularly interested in a set of small islands of the coast of N W Europe. I think they have been afraid of Germany, and hence wanted a buffer of states around them prior to the collapse of Communism.

As for the Americans - post war at least they have been hysterically anti-Communist thinking of e.g the McCarthy witch hunts of the early 1950s.

But we are going off topic so tell me to start my own thread by all means.

National security.

The US is the worlds only superpower, so having a close relationship with them is very much in our interest for a number of reasons, but mainly because we get access to more military capability at a lower cost that would be if we had to develop it all ourselves.

I wonder what the cost would be to us if we were to leave this behind, plus general threat

No one can ever put a price on that.

That's part of the problem of course.

That and the fact that you can't simply magic nuclear weapons and signals intelligence out of nowhere in 5 minutes when suddenly you feel they might be of some use.

Yes I would be wary of dismissing what this brings to the UK in terms of reducing threat

So you reduce 'A real common ground' to National Security?

Isn't there more to our culture than that? I myself have never been to North America but late DH had. He said it was much more foreign than he expected.

Think of two key issues in the USA at present - the right to carry arms and the abortion issue. We don't have the first in the UK and I don't think anyone wants that. Then the right to abortion isn't such a political battleground. There are people - medical staff who are against it, who have the right to opt out, and you get pro-lifers attacking clinics, but they are in the minority. I am aware that until recently the rules in NI were not the same as the rest of the UK. I am not aware of it being an election issue.

On the flip side why isn't national security and a reduction in threat important to you?

On the flip side why isn't national security and a reduction in threat important to you?

I haven't said that it isn't - I don't think we can conflate what is best for American interests into common ground. It's not necessarily best for the UK.

Without national security there is no culture.

Yes the US is different from the UK. I have been there many times. Often people are surprised by how different it is. Two countries divided by a common language as the saying goes.

But most of the key values are the same. And I would question who would make a better ally in an uncertain world and have the same weight. China ? Russia ? The EU ?

The EU probably has a lot in common with the UK, but has a woeful record on military spending and intelligence gathering. Most of the members spend more time trying to get one ups on each other rather than trying to act in the strategic interests of the collective.

GasPanic I think we have to beg to differ, but I will make a couple more points after WW2 Germany (W Germany) was restricted in what it could do militarily. France and the UK have been the big military nations in Europe.

But did we have to get involved in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya? We were very po faced about the Russians in Afghanistan and until we went and got ourselves embroiled - initially supposedly looking for Bin Laden, who turned out to be holed up in Pakistan. Thankfully we didn't overtly get involved in Vietnam.

Sorry but that made me laugh. Thanks for wishing us in Europe to be able to write our own history. Have you been to Europe? UK?

So what would you want to happen?

Continue what is known as the special relationship because it's important for national security and lowering threat or otherwise?

Sorry but that made me laugh. Thanks for wishing us in Europe to be able to write our own history. Have you been to Europe? UK?

I have. Utterly moribund economies and conservative-minded (in the sense of never taking risks). Nice but a little bit unserious.

Events that happen in Europe do not resonate abroad. Do you think the average Chinese person knows about Starmer? They certainly know Trump and the average American know about Putin and Xi. When they (or anybody else really) think of Britain, they probably think of Harry Potter tbh

What is British foreign policy other than being hangers-on to the Americans?

Tbh I married in so this state of affairs gives me no joy. I have a sense of frustration that Europe has not become a dynamic place full of innovation and invention. Despite, you know, creating the modern world as we know it. Tragic.

@RingoJuice you write as though Britain and Europe are the same thing!

Britain has become a bit of a foreign policy backwater since brexit it's true, but the EU is a serious economic power block.

Who cares what people in other countries have heard of?

Anyway it's not necessary to be a major player on the world stage to 'write your own history', you just need to avoid being annexed by someone who will write it for you.

you write as though Britain and Europe are the same thing

Yes I do in the sense that your challenges are quite similar

Britain has become a bit of a foreign policy backwater since brexit it's true, but the EU is a serious economic power block

Really? Germany is going through an industrial shrinkage that is actually really bad. If German manufacturing collapses … the EU is in trouble.

It is sobering to realize that EU and US were at economic parity just 15 years ago, iirc EU was slightly bigger but nowadays the US has zoomed ahead. You’ve made hardly any contributions to the digital landscape, instead it is being driven by the US and China/Taiwan. It seems you prefer to regulate what other people do than create anything yourself.

And a lot of you think it’s gonna be fixed by taking more money away from
the successful …

@RingoJuice so is the US already great then or does it need to be made great? I am confused...

Incidentally Dutch wafer chip technology is 5-10 years ahead of the Chinese. Which is huge in wafer chip technology terms. Now I am thinking of wafers and chips so need to eat breakfast.

And about 50 years ahead of Russia incidentally though that has no significance at all 😜

I'm now convinced RJ hasn't been anywhere near Europe or the UK.

sure sure, you’ve just been hiding that vibrant, innovative economy from outsiders …