Not sure what I make of this - DD and boyfriends Mum (TW discussion about abortion)

[Mybodymychoiceorherchoice]

Dd and her boyfriend are both 17, both good, sensible kids, have jobs , go to college, nice mates, don't drink, don't live in each others pockets either. They have been seeing each other for close to a year.

Dd is on the pill, and they also use condoms. Neither want a baby, dd strongly believes in a woman's right to choose, but she doesn't think she would be able to have an abortion if an accident happened, her and her boyfriend have discussed this so he knows.

Dd was on antibiotics recently and they had an accident, I went with dd and got her the MAP right away (her request) and all was fine.

This, however, has inspired a chat from her boyfriends Mum, who now also wants to meet me to discuss this.

She sat dd down over the weekend and told her that if she were to fall pregnant that she absolutely has to get an abortion, no ifs ands or buts, and that neither her, or a baby would be welcomed if she should choose to keep it (obviously if she became pregnant).

The mum has requested I meet her, we discuss this and sit and present it to them and basically say neither of us would support them, they would be kicked out etc (it was a very long text and not quite as blatant as that, but that's the jist).

I've had very few dealings with this woman, she seemed nice enough, always treated dd kindly, but this is shitty right?

I'm obviously not going to bully my daughter into being terrified to come to me if she were to get pregnant, and I would support her in whatever her choice was 100%, so I don't even know what to say to this woman for the sake of family harmony, because, currently, I want to tell her to fuck off.

It's very unlikely dd will fall pregnant anyway given how sensible they are being, so there's no need for this chat to happen at all.

Dd knows I very much believe in a woman's right to choose, and that includes the choice not to have an abortion too.

I need to tell this woman I'm not having this chat, that I would support my daughter, and I'm not wiling to gang up on, and terrify, a couple of teens about a situation that's very unlikely to happen anyway, but in a neutral way so I don't piss her off and destroy the relationship she has with dd.

I also have sons and I just wouldn't ever dream of saying shit like this to their girlfriends.

are you naturally a complete idiot or did you take classes?

my 8 year old nephew said that to his twin over the weekend 😆

🤣🤣🤣

This stuff really upsets me. People who bang on about the right to choose but drag their daughters into clinics insisting on terminations without any thoughts of the girls feelings. The irony is they are not much different to parents who sent unmarried daughters away to have their babies removed for adoption.

I couldn't agree with you more OP. This woman is really crossing a line. I get why she is scared but she must accept it isn't her life or body. She is of course entitled to her views, there is a difference between presenting her thoughts, stating what she wants the young couple to do and telling them they have no choice. Maybe they could hear her out let her present her case but make it clear that's all it is and she will not have a final say in this, ever.

In theory I agree.... however usually when a teenager continues with a pregnancy, it's her family, more often than not her mother, who ends up doing huge amounts of childcare and providing support, at a time of her life when she may be looking forward to finally not having any more caring responsibilities.

I would text back saying that it wouldn’t be appropriate to discuss because it just isn’t how things work.

Neither this woman or her son would have any legal rights concerning whether or not to abort in any potential pregnancy, and of course it would be up to your dd to decide what to do. I would say this, and that you certainly would not pressure her either now or at the time. If the boy concerned doesn’t like that he has one certain way to prevent it, and if his mother wants she can raise it with him but it will be a losing battle. It will be the same with any woman he is with.

I would also say that you find her intervention quite alarming and inappropriate.

Flippin heck, I would 100% be meeting with this woman to rip her a new arsehole! If she ever had that conversation with my daughter I would be spitting hell fire at her.
What she says to her son is up to her (even if she is very wrong, we should be teaching our boys that they are as equally responsible in this situation as their partner imo) but the brass neck on her thinking you would support throwing your daughter out at potentially the most difficult time of her life 😡
I had to take the MAP once or twice in my youth, much better than an unwanted pregnancy and it is hardly using it instead of contraception in your dd case, I hope to be as level headed as OP if my daughter (or my son for that matter) finds herself in a similar situation.

Would you mind sharing some info about this please? I volunteer for an small abuse charity and all my training has used the power and control wheel. I'd like to read up on why that's not used anymore so I can let my supervisor know.

People who bang on about the right to choose but drag their daughters into clinics insisting on terminations without any thoughts of the girls feelings

are you aware of mothers who have done this @Dontlletmedownbruce

https://www.saferplaces.co.uk/resources/triple-r

RRR is above and useful info there, it's a trauma informed approach looking at supporting victims/survivors rather than heavily focusing on the perpetrators. It's very good.

Lots of DA work used to be based on Duluth/power and control but it's too rigid and not nuanced enough, most perpetrator programmes now are based on the general aggression model for intimate partner violence (Allen etc all 2018). This has already started to come in around the time of DASH assessments (I was very lucky to have been trained by Laura Richards, if you haven't read it read policing domestic violence it's great) and now policing is moving on from DASH towards DARA and a separate stalking checklist. Albeit MARAC remains with DASH. I'm involved in a stalking intervention panel pilot, multi agency police led, which hopefully will spread nationally. We've had some real successes, pre as well as post conviction.

I would also highly recommend reading Jane Monckton Smith, anything by her, she's great in the stages leading to domestic homicide I think her most recent is called in control - dangerous relationships and how the end in murder.

Sister in law is also interesting but a more general look at women in the criminal justice system if it interests you (the vast majority of women convicted of anything have been victims of domestic abuse/intimate partner violence) that's Harriet Wistrich

Thanks! I'll read up on all of this and I appreciate you taking the time to reply.

Just don't reply. Don't engage. Talk about a load of fuss about something that hasn't even happened yet.

Sounds like the mum is panicking at the thought of her baby ‘falling’. We’re not unaccustomed to people overstating their positions here, are we?!

This. This woman wants you to help her to threaten your daughter? So, if your daughter ends up pregnant despite all precautions, this woman expects you to desert your own child.

My mum used to tell us "if you have a baby, I'm not raising it for you." and that was the extent of any "threat"

His mother sounds strangely controlling. If she feels her son can’t be trusted to use condoms properly maybe she could get him a vasectomy. Either way she has no right to dictate to your daughter.

Fuck family harmony! I'd meet her and tell her in no uncertain terms that you will absolutely back your daughter 100% in whatever life throws at her. There will be no threats from your end and remind her that her precious son would be 50% responsible for creating the potential baby that would make her so unwelcome in her house.
My blood is boiling on your daughters behalf 😂

Tell the boyfriends mum that ‘women’s right to choose’ is for the woman who is pregnant not another woman.

no need to break the relationship up but do have a chat with both without the mother to confirm your views and continued support.

re someones’s comment about ‘ how can a condom break’- really?!

You sound like a wonderful mum, OP, and your daughter is very clearly an incredibly sensible girl. I wish I was as sensible at the same age! I’m currently expecting a daughter and can only hope that we have such a lovely, close relationship and that she always knows she can come to me for help, no matter what, just like your daughter. Good luck to her and her bf…his mum sounds like a treat 😂

I've just read your posts and some of others on this thread., I'd have to agree with a previous poster you sound like a wonderful mum. And doing the Freedom programme with your kids is a top class idea that although I never thought of it before makes perfect sense. Well done x

Can I just say you sound like an absolutely fantastic Mum!
Your children are extremely lucky to have you.

Like you've already said in your replies, I would just reiterate to them both at the weekend that they will always have you in their corner (although I'm sure they already know that) and that you'll always support them in their decisions.

Keep being open and honest with them, it's (in my humble opinion) the best way to parent.

If two people don’t want/not ready to have a baby together they shouldn’t have sex. This is what I will teach my children when they are this age.

I would be telling the other mum where to go. What a head case. You sound like you had a good relationship with your daughter since she was comfortable enough to be open with you. It’s not worth risking that to entertain the other mum- just chase her.

How is it a myth that antibiotic use can affect the pill working properly? It has been written in the patient leaflet of every type of pill I've ever used, and I've tried several over the years.

It sounds like they have both taken every precaution they can in the circumstances to avoid pregnancy.

Well done OP on having such a close relationship with your DD. I hope when my DS and DD are that age they will feel able to come to me too!

Just out of interest, does the BF know that his mother messaged you? It does seem off that she would talk to your DD alone and not both of them together if she wants to say something.

Iv never seen it in a patient leaflet, iv spoken to multiple drs about it and iv googled it. It's a myth. Their is only a certain type of antibiotic that effects the pill and it's used for tb. Obviously if you get severe sickness and diarrhea that can effect absorption but antibiotics in general have no effect on the pill

Thank you for your message asking to me to meet with you to discuss how to go forward as a team to avoid becoming grandparents.

My daughter and I are already a team as such and she knows she always has my absolute understanding and support as I know that she is mature, sensible and thoughtful about her personal relationship. She doesn’t need control and threats in the rather heavy handed way you suggest - our easy and open relationship is based on trust and respect and we wouldn’t appreciate your suggestion that she must hit rock bottom before learning hard lessons about avoiding pregnancy. As she would tell you, she is already very well informed on the subject of relationships, sexual health, and pregnancy avoidance. I can assure you that as decent parents, we have made sure of that already.

Thank you for your thoughts on this subject of a prospective pregnancy. I feel that it is for you to tell your son about your concerns. I don’t have the same concerns for my daughter and wouldn’t want her subjected to the sort of threatening intervention you are suggesting.

We find your son to also be a sensible and thoughtful young man. I’m sure he will be interested in your views on abortion rights and a woman’s right to choose as well as reassuring in his response to you about your fear of him becoming a father too soon.
Thanks again and all the best.

Firstly ignore the other judgemental Karen's on this thread. You sound like a fantastic mum. I too have done the programme and so has my son. I went through abuse and although I'm note with his dad in a loving relationship I want better for my son and have always been frank about it. I want him to recognise signs of abuse early. He came out as gay at an early age and I'd never judge him regardless. If he did change his mind later then I'd be happy either way. So long a she is happy. I'd certainly never expect any person to abort regardless. You sound like you have a fantastic relationship with your daughter and dher boyfriend. His mum sounds a bit unhinged and for those who think they're been irresponßible. They are of legal age. You can't stop them having sex the best you can do is what you are doing make it clear you are there to talk too and support them whatever happens.