Not sure what I make of this - DD and boyfriends Mum (TW discussion about abortion)

[Mybodymychoiceorherchoice]

Dd and her boyfriend are both 17, both good, sensible kids, have jobs , go to college, nice mates, don't drink, don't live in each others pockets either. They have been seeing each other for close to a year.

Dd is on the pill, and they also use condoms. Neither want a baby, dd strongly believes in a woman's right to choose, but she doesn't think she would be able to have an abortion if an accident happened, her and her boyfriend have discussed this so he knows.

Dd was on antibiotics recently and they had an accident, I went with dd and got her the MAP right away (her request) and all was fine.

This, however, has inspired a chat from her boyfriends Mum, who now also wants to meet me to discuss this.

She sat dd down over the weekend and told her that if she were to fall pregnant that she absolutely has to get an abortion, no ifs ands or buts, and that neither her, or a baby would be welcomed if she should choose to keep it (obviously if she became pregnant).

The mum has requested I meet her, we discuss this and sit and present it to them and basically say neither of us would support them, they would be kicked out etc (it was a very long text and not quite as blatant as that, but that's the jist).

I've had very few dealings with this woman, she seemed nice enough, always treated dd kindly, but this is shitty right?

I'm obviously not going to bully my daughter into being terrified to come to me if she were to get pregnant, and I would support her in whatever her choice was 100%, so I don't even know what to say to this woman for the sake of family harmony, because, currently, I want to tell her to fuck off.

It's very unlikely dd will fall pregnant anyway given how sensible they are being, so there's no need for this chat to happen at all.

Dd knows I very much believe in a woman's right to choose, and that includes the choice not to have an abortion too.

I need to tell this woman I'm not having this chat, that I would support my daughter, and I'm not wiling to gang up on, and terrify, a couple of teens about a situation that's very unlikely to happen anyway, but in a neutral way so I don't piss her off and destroy the relationship she has with dd.

I also have sons and I just wouldn't ever dream of saying shit like this to their girlfriends.

Lots of people rushing to judgment on OP here. It sound to me like both she and DD are "belt and braces" person, and when the braces fail and you aren't sure of the belt, it can't hurt to be extra-sure with the MAP. (For what it's worth, I don't think most antibiotics have any effect on oral contraception — see https://www.plannedparenthood.org/blog/can-antibiotics-affect-my-birth-control.)

I also wouldn't focus too much on OP's use of the word "accident". Condoms break. I know an Oxford don who is the result of a broken condom (because his parents told us at the time, many years ago).

As for BF's Mum, she sounds a bit anxious, but basically she and OP are close to being on the same page (i.e., not wanting a pregnancy), they're just going about things in different way. I would be inclined to just make some smoothing-over noises (but then I am fairly averse to conflict over hypotheticals). If push comes to shove then whatever OP might have said to BFM won't matter anyway because it will be DD's choice at that point. BFM is being unreasonable in expecting OP to commit to DD's future actions, but I don't think it's something worth getting in a fight about.

(Oh, and the people suggesting that DD should drop BF over this should give their heads a wobble. If DD has the right to make up her own mind then so does BF.)

@Mybodymychoiceorherchoice I'd be mad too. But, in the interests of not making things worse for your daughter's relationship with the BF's mother, I would tell her you have already had a chat with your daughter, explain what you said here about the precautions they are taking, and also the MAP was just being extra cautious.

Then add that you are satisfied that they are being very responsible, but you absolutely would support whatever decision they came to if the 'worst' happened and you will not be meeting to have a further decision and you won't be discussing it with her further?

I think she is being very unreasonable but for the sake of not causing a fall out I would say.

'Sorry I don't think this is the right approach for us. I have spoken to DD about contraception. I hope she knows I will always support her choices and she can come to me with any problems. It is so hard to let them be independent at this age but I think sex and relationships is definitely one thing we need to trust them to manage themselves'.

Maybe add a joke about how much easier it was when they were little or something light hearted to show you understand it's scary!

Your daughter sounds so responsible, please ignore the judgement. The pill is reliable of used correctly so I don't think there is a need to worry too much. Sex always has risks and that's part of being an adult.

You have the right attitude. Your support your daughter and her boyfriend with what they (but ultimately your DD because it’s her body) decides.

You tell BFs mum to fuck off.

Congratulations on your measured response @@Mybodymychoiceorherchoice
I’d have been very tempted to meet the mum, with the teens there, and spell out very clearly how you would support these sensible young adults with their autonomy. But as you say that probably wouldn’t help family relations

That poster was incorrect op, more antibiotics than that can affect the level of contraception efficiency. Even have an upset stomach can cause it to be ineffective. Your daughter is trying to be sensible and I think it's great she's using two contraceptives as many don't

So the bf mum has gone about this all wrong BUT I do get the fear as a mum who has sons.

In this situation the girl has all the control and boy has none. I'm not saying she isnt right but I understand the knee jerk reaction of the fear of your child's future changing before your eyes.

OP, I haven't read the full thread, just your replies but can see from them this has really brought out some of the unhinged MN'ers. So I just wanted to say it sounds like you have a great relationship with your daughter and her BF, and I hope when my son grows up he feels as comfortable about this stuff with me. You sound like a lovely mum.

Totally agree with all of this. What a fantastically sensible daughter you’ve raised op, I certainly wasn’t so sensible at her age anyway! She’s lucky to have you in her corner and I’m glad you’ve pushed back onto her boyfriend’s weird mother.

Well done op. You have a very sensible daughter and your relationship with her sounds great. Condoms absolutely can break, it has happened to me a couple of times. I was incredibly careful at her age because I was terrified of getting pregnant. I had to take the map twice, there's no way in hell I'd have been able to talk to my mother about it. The boyfriends mum is nuts.

There are some really strange replies on this thread, because DD and her DBF sound like 2 of the more clued up teenagers walking the planet currently, who actually take good precautions and know what to do when they malfunction (as they can)

You are right not to engage with the other mother further OP, what she was suggesting was outrageous. Hopefully she will obtain a grip from somewhere and it won't affect the relationships all round.

You sound like a great mum with a lovely relationship with your daughter.
DD and her boyfriend sound very sensible, there are some very strange people on this thread! Your response is good, this woman sounds very strange.

I wanted to make one comment, you said that DD's bf is lovely and the mum has seemed great until now. I have a difficult and somewhat controlling MIL whose behaviour wasn't obvious for a long time. This comment from the mum would put me on guard against her - it may be worth being aware of other signs of enmeshment from her so that you can be ready to support DD and her bf if needed/appropriate, without assuming the worst of her based on one comment.

It's absolutely batshit that the mother is asking for this chat when they're taking SO many precautions. Pill, condoms, and very quick MAP when there's an accident.

She needs to get out of this relationship now, because nobody has the right to tell her what she HAS to do with her own body, and given they're already trying to, before there's even any need whatsoever, staying in the relationship would be a really bad idea.

Thank you all.

I was starting to wonder if my views were totally off in thinking dd is really sensible.

I was a wild, and very stupid, teenager, and I couldn't have spoken to my mother about anything at all, and went through a lot myself, so I've been really proud of being able to turn that around and have the opposite relationship with my dc.

I have been accused of being too open with my dc at times, and that's probably true to some extent, but it's paid off now they are all a lot older and they know they can take to me about anything, and that I'll always be there for them, whatever the situation.

I do get her being worried about any potential of our teens having a baby, its not exactly up there in my wish list for my kids either. She has just went at it entirely the wrong way.

And thanks for saying I sound like a good mum, that's honestly just the best thing to hear, I'm always second guessing and questioning stuff.

For all the pearl clutches..

My dd was conceived when i was 32. whilst I had the mirena coil fitted AND used thick condoms and adter a diagnosis from 2 seperate gynaecologists that i did not produce viable eggs so could not get pregnant without medical intervention. Dd is a a very healthy 11 year old.

@Mybodymychoiceorherchoice you sound amazing and have raised an amazing dd. Like you I have always been open with dd and intend to continue in the same way as you. That pregnancy, whilst not desirable at a young age, is not the end of the world and we will deal with it in the best way for her should it ever happen.

I do not ever want her to be too scared of a telling off or eviction to come to me if needed. What an absolutely archaic and ridiculous approach.

My response to BF's mum would take a few rewrites to remove the sweaty "who the fuck do you think you are" vibe bur would hopefully go along the lines of

Dear X. There will be no united front approach in thuis matter. It is imperative that our kids have the security of knowing they are loved should a pregnancy occur. I have raised Dd to be open and honest and I have no intent of threatening her with fear. Your parenting choices are your own but I will not be agreeing to your approach. You can raise your son however you deem best but I would appreciate you leaving the parenting of Dd to me. Regards @Mybodymychoiceorherchoice

@Mybodymychoiceorherchoice I just wanted to say that you sound like a fantastic and supportive parent. Your DD sounds extremely sensible and, yes fine had a mishap, but took mature and reasonable steps to prevent a pregnancy. Well done her.

Why are you calling her the MiL?

I've actually only met her a couple of times, and we've messaged a few times about general things, so I haven't had much involvement.

However she is very proudly a 'boy mum', shares a lot of 'boy mum' memes (10 rules for dating my son type stuff) which kind of put me on guard, but then she's been nothing but nice to dd until now so I just thought she's one of those with a social media persona and is different irl.

Dd is very astute, she's done the freedom programme multiple times and is very good at picking up on signs of manipulation and abuse, so I'm hoping that her upbringing has been enough that she knows her worth and what she won't tolerate.

This kind of age is always a bit scary to me, raising them is done and you have to step back a bit and hope you've done enough.

She's over stepped but has done so out of anxiety, it is absolutely the woman's right to choose an abortion or not but having a baby that young also has a huge impact on the father's life (if he's not a disappearing arsehole which this boy doesn't seem to be).
I'd imagine this is why he is keen to use condoms, not saying he doesn't trust your daughter but it's right he's taking responsibility for his own contraception.
Yes he could be celibate but come on how many people are celibate until they definitely want a child and have means to provide for one?
I think in your response you should address her fears and just reiterate that they are being sensible and as soon as the worst happened your daughter wanted the MAP straight away and you want her to continue to be open with you so won't be going with her suggested approach.

Why has your 17 year old daughter done a programme for women in and meaning an abusive relationship multiple times?! That's very odd. Also the freedom programme is based on the outdated power and control model and women's aid and most other organisations now recommend RRR.
You might've jumped the shark OP

Wth? I'd be advising my daughter not to have sex with a man that shies away from the responsibilities of his actions.

And how sad that his mother is encouraging her son to be this way

I struggle to understand - if this is the situation why don't they just stop having sex until they are actually ready to have a baby if this is each party's position on outcome if there was an accidental pregnancy

Because I've suffered abuse my whole life, it was actually recommended to me by WA when we lived in a refuge, and they said it was a good idea to go over it with my kids as well (when they hit an age they could comprehend it) so we do, every year or so.

It's helped her recognise various situations which aren't healthy at all and shut them down.

Anyone can buy it online, it's not just for women in abusive relationships, but, given her father was abusive to me, I wanted to do my best by my dc to help them recognise it wasn't OK. Off the back of that she did recognise various things about her dad's behaviour.

It may seem odd to you, but I have no basis for normality in my life, and I am trying my hardest to make sure my kids don't have the life I have, so sometimes I do things that probably aren't deemed 'normal' because I never had anyone tell me this stuff.

You sound as if you are a wonderful mother, @Mybodymychoiceorherchoice .
Bravo!

The two people directly involved have discussed what they are comfortable with.

They are teenagers, they are in love, they are in a commuted relationship, there's no way they will decide to stop having sex until they want a baby.

This woman and I shouldn't be involved in any decision making, it's not our place.