Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Original poster

How to break bad news - 11+

319 replies

GoodIsGoodEnough · 18/10/2024 06:00

My DC hasn't scored high enough to get into grammar. It was always going to be a long shot with much less tutoring than their peers, but I am still sad for them.

Any advice on how to tell them the news would be appreciated.

Do I give them their real score which is about 30 marks off, or do I say their score was closer (say 10 marks off)?

I hate that at 10 they're going to not feel "good enough". I never wanted the 11+, they got wind of it and wanted to do it. I feel like I've let them down.

I didn't go to grammar and I've read all the stories of people going to comps and doing well, which I'm sure she will, but just looking for some advice on how to handle this immediate situation today.

OP posts:
BunnyLake · 18/10/2024 08:32

wonderingwhatsnext · 18/10/2024 06:05

Tell them they passed but for x, y or z reason you've decided it's not the right school for them. It's a harmless white lie.

Gosh no don’t do this. Supposing she cried and begged you to let her go, you’d put yourself in a really bad situation. Very odd advice to be given.

I’d say, “sorry sweetie you didn’t get in, never mind” and just let her either absorb it or answer any questions (truthfully) she had.

Thischangeseverything · 18/10/2024 08:33

wonderingwhatsnext · 18/10/2024 06:05

Tell them they passed but for x, y or z reason you've decided it's not the right school for them. It's a harmless white lie.

Worst advice ever! My relative got in to grammar school and their Dad didn't let them go, and let me tell you, at over 80 years old they have not forgiven him. This is far from a "white lie".

Westofeasttoday · 18/10/2024 08:35

User37482 · 18/10/2024 06:19

The main thing is she shouldn’t feel that you are disappointed, give her a cuddle and tell her it’s fine. Ask her if she wants to do anything today and take her to do it.

Shouldn’t lie to children about their results, it’s an important part of resilience building. That resilience is what will be useful to her in the future.

Edited

Couldn’t agree more. I get you want to ease the blow and protect but resilience is far more important.

My hubby failed his 11+ and all his sisters went. He drove him to over excel academically and he went on to get a doctorate and now has an amazing well paid job.

Grammar isn’t the end all be all. It’s a national curriculum no matter where you go. With your support and focus on academia they will be fine.

i have NEVER hired anyone because they went to a grammar school.

Also,

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

11+ Exam General education
rosesinmygarden · 18/10/2024 08:37

11 plus tutor here.

Be honest with her. She's not got a grammar score and that confirms that a grammar school wouldn't be the best school for her.

The 11 plus is a tool to help you decide which school she's most likely to be happiest at, so now your choice is X, Y or Z.

Around here, grammars allow in year entry later on if they have spare spaces because they're aware that children develop, mature and reach their potential at different times. Is that the case where you are? Knowing she could possibly try again later might soften the blow, even if you don't intend to do it.

PrincessScarlett · 18/10/2024 08:37

Be truthful with your daughter. It will be an important learning curve. In my area the 11+ is very competitive and most children receive intensive tutoring for 2 years beforehand. Once they go to grammar they either have to keep up the tutoring to keep up with everyone else or they face being bottom of the class. Not something I wanted to burden my kids with who are doing fantastically at their mainstream school.

Praise your daughter for how well she did without all the tutoring. Tell her that the experience will aid her senior school learning. Don't be negative with her or show regret for not getting her tutored.

Pipsquiggle · 18/10/2024 08:38

wonderingwhatsnext · 18/10/2024 06:05

Tell them they passed but for x, y or z reason you've decided it's not the right school for them. It's a harmless white lie.

@wonderingwhatsnext this is really poor advice. It's not a harmless white lie.
The DC that took the test will be talking about it and know their marks. The girl will look foolish if she comes out with clap trap like that, her peers will see straight through it.

@GoodIsGoodEnough this is all about framing but also instilling confidence. It's probably best that she didn't get in grammar, there are so many DC that struggle in that environment. You want her to go to the school that's the best fit for her. Also, whatever the grade, in any exam, it's about praising the effort put in and how she did her best.

SanctusInDistress · 18/10/2024 08:39

Tell them that the 11+ isn’t a sign of intelligence, but an indicator of how intensively somebody has been tutored and also of how socially insecure a parent is.

Also tell them that if they had got in, they’d need to carry in being tutored to ‘keep up with the jones’ and also dig out some stats on mental health of kids who have been intensively tutored to get into grammar and private schools, again do that the parents feel that they are socially better than the ones who go to estate schools.

the system is insane and so are the parents who fuel this.

ChillWith · 18/10/2024 08:42

I had already opened email so knew but pretended it had just arrived and we read together, so we just reacted together at the same time. Of course he was disappointed. He had already set sights on a non-selective school so we were happy and confident to put that down as first choice. He's flying there and top set in all subjects, but the best thing is he has found new interests, which some of the grammars just didn't offer (range of sports, music, drama). Your daughter will do well wherever she goes.

User236792 · 18/10/2024 08:42

wonderingwhatsnext · 18/10/2024 06:05

Tell them they passed but for x, y or z reason you've decided it's not the right school for them. It's a harmless white lie.

Don’t do this. This is a pointless lie which could do a lot of harm.

HappyTwo · 18/10/2024 08:42

GoodIsGoodEnough · 18/10/2024 06:22

No, I won't be telling them they passed but won't be going.

I feel guilty we didn't play the tutoring system well enough and trying to separate my guilt from the disappointment for her.

I just don't want her to feel any "less" because she is actually bloody amazing! One score does not tell her who she is. But if I can soften the blow in any way I will.

I’m sorry but you shouldn’t feel guilty about the tutoring - 30 marks are a lot. It’s the kids who miss out by 1 or 2 marks where it’s tricky. Just tell her you genuinely think the comp is better for her so maybe it’s work out the way it was meant to be.

Neurodiversitydoctor · 18/10/2024 08:42

GoodIsGoodEnough · 18/10/2024 06:00

My DC hasn't scored high enough to get into grammar. It was always going to be a long shot with much less tutoring than their peers, but I am still sad for them.

Any advice on how to tell them the news would be appreciated.

Do I give them their real score which is about 30 marks off, or do I say their score was closer (say 10 marks off)?

I hate that at 10 they're going to not feel "good enough". I never wanted the 11+, they got wind of it and wanted to do it. I feel like I've let them down.

I didn't go to grammar and I've read all the stories of people going to comps and doing well, which I'm sure she will, but just looking for some advice on how to handle this immediate situation today.

I am completely flabbergasted you would keep this from a year 6 child. It is their score, their information, their future.

If they ask you need to be truthful. I am sure they will be sad- that's normal. Children need to learn to cope with disappointment, it's a life skill.

We were talking about how exam results were posted on a board or read out when DhlH and I were at school and how ultimately that was better as people who hadn't done well didn't have to repeat that news over and over again.

User37482 · 18/10/2024 08:43

Retiredfromthere · 18/10/2024 08:12

You don't need tutoring but it helps. To a point. Once you are in grammar school (both I and my son passed so we know what is on the other side) you find that some kids, likely the heavily tutored ones, will find that they struggle a lot because without tutoring they won't be able to stay in top of things. Unless a child is clearly going to thrive in a grammar school - many will - then it's not a good school choice. All the test tells you is whether they will thrive in a place which expects a certain performance. The 11+ is just the entry exam. If you cannot do the entry exam without lots of support and coaching it's likely not to be for you. If you should have passed and failed (had nerves or a bad day) it's worth considering that the next year would be the first of many years where the results will matter - because of the school type a grammar school is. There are some really unhappy children in grammar schools, because even though they passed the 11+ it's not the school for them. They will go from feeling them are bright to feeling they are fun - relative to their classmates.

I worked in universities teaching and supporting postgraduate level students for 20+ years. Many successful students did not pass 11+ exams and only later found that they wanted to study at a high intensive level in a topic they chose. The grammar school system will expect a lot from your child and there should be no embarrassment in not passing an entrance exam to a school type that is not a good choice for your child.

You will hear all sorts of stories today of near misses, parents determined to appeal, and of unexpected (undeserved) passes. This will happen throughout your child's school career, and later with job interviews, promotions, etc. Often not getting access to the thing you thought you wanted is not the end of things but an opportunity to do something else. If your child has any hero's perhaps find out what their educational route was. Unlikely to be grammar school - Unless a politician or academic.

Hope your child has a great education and life. I suggest not telling the score, just pass or fail. I would say, 'sorry you did not get in, but xxx school is going to be great'. It's good that your daughter was not studying for years and focused on getting in and then did not. Sounds like it's a good result for the amount of prep in her case and it's clear that lots of tutoring would not have helped her over the bar comfortably. You saved money there! You tested the rest and it's not for you.

Show quote history

I’d agree with this, I wasn’t tutored and was a last minute entrant, I was fine in grammar. But I was the only one who wasn’t tutored (that I know of). I lived in a grammar area where people had just started tutoring heavily and there were kids who really struggled (not many mind). There were also some exceptionally smart kids who would have got in regardless, I mean very gifted.

I won’t be tutoring my own. I don’t think it would be fair to her to do anything other than exam practice at home.

Also kids develop at different rates, we aren’t the same as when we are 10, it’s really not the be all and end all.

RedToothBrush · 18/10/2024 08:43

I do actually think the comp will be a better fit for her anyway, will certainly be hyping it up!
This is one of the reasons that I didn't want her to do it. She is bright and has always done well at school. I don't ever want her to think she isn't enough.

Well there's the nutshell of what you've need to say.

Say you are RELIEVED that she didn't get in, because you think that the other school is good and a better fit for her and that you were worried about the grammar school being too high pressure. Not getting into the grammar doesn't mean she can't do well and she won't have opportunities. It is less likely to be as stressful and as competitive. She won't constantly feel like she's at the bottom struggling to keep up even though she's doing really well. Its better for her confidence in the long run.

TBH I suspect the BIGGEST thing isn't going to be that she's not going to the grammar school, its whether she's going with her friends or not. Beware of friendship group shifts after today. My friend is a yr6 teacher in a grammar school area and says its a nightmare, particularly with the girls because they go clichey and bitchy when they know who is going to what school. Thats MORE likely what you will need to manage at that age.

MayaPinion · 18/10/2024 08:45

wonderingwhatsnext · 18/10/2024 06:05

Tell them they passed but for x, y or z reason you've decided it's not the right school for them. It's a harmless white lie.

Do not do this. She will pressure you really hard to go, especially if some of her close friends are going. You need to be kind but honest. You don’t need to go into detail about the score unless she asks, but acknowledge that it is very competitive and although she wasn’t offered a place the other school will probably be better for her as it is great for geography/sport/music, etc. whatever her best subjects or interests are. I think it’s important that you focus on selling the other school as a positive choice as it’s the story she will be able to tell her friends.

AngryBird6122 · 18/10/2024 08:46

HappyTwo · 18/10/2024 08:42

I’m sorry but you shouldn’t feel guilty about the tutoring - 30 marks are a lot. It’s the kids who miss out by 1 or 2 marks where it’s tricky. Just tell her you genuinely think the comp is better for her so maybe it’s work out the way it was meant to be.

Show quote history

I agree with this, it's not like she just missed out. If you intensely tutored her and then sent her to Grammar where she would likely struggle (unless you would tutor the whole way through which would be a madness!!) then I am pretty sure you would feel guiltier putting her in that situation, no? Kids need to be happy at school and it doesn't sound like it would have been the right for her, so that's how I would frame it.

WomenInConstruction · 18/10/2024 08:46

Trust her to handle the truth.
Whatever she is told could make it worse or better... So the last thing it should be is a lie.

If her score was close but not close enough, she could beat herself up for just not revising that little bit more, or obsess on that one question she wasn't sure about that could have made the difference.

So Christ, don't hand her a lie. If she struggles with anything it should at least be the truth and you can't predict a reaction... Once you told her something it's done.

Moglet4 · 18/10/2024 08:46

SanctusInDistress · 18/10/2024 08:39

Tell them that the 11+ isn’t a sign of intelligence, but an indicator of how intensively somebody has been tutored and also of how socially insecure a parent is.

Also tell them that if they had got in, they’d need to carry in being tutored to ‘keep up with the jones’ and also dig out some stats on mental health of kids who have been intensively tutored to get into grammar and private schools, again do that the parents feel that they are socially better than the ones who go to estate schools.

the system is insane and so are the parents who fuel this.

Or you could perhaps not lie to your children by giving them prejudiced, misinformed twaddle.

Hedgerow2 · 18/10/2024 08:49

wonderingwhatsnext · 18/10/2024 06:05

Tell them they passed but for x, y or z reason you've decided it's not the right school for them. It's a harmless white lie.

For goodness sake - don't do this!

Moglet4 · 18/10/2024 08:49

OP, keep it simple. ‘Sorry sweetie, you didn’t quite manage it but I’m so proud of you for giving it a go. To be fair, kiddo, hardly anyone gets in anyway. Now, let’s have a look at all the extra-curricular x school offers’

WomenInConstruction · 18/10/2024 08:49

Focus on what her opportunities are where she is going, talk about the way different paths don't always turn out the way you expect, including the aspirational grammar, as pp said could be the wrong path too...
Instead focus how anyone's success is based on what they make out of where they are, in other words you get out of something what you put in.
Find out more about where she will go and see what positives it has.

AngryBird6122 · 18/10/2024 08:49

Moglet4 · 18/10/2024 08:49

OP, keep it simple. ‘Sorry sweetie, you didn’t quite manage it but I’m so proud of you for giving it a go. To be fair, kiddo, hardly anyone gets in anyway. Now, let’s have a look at all the extra-curricular x school offers’

Love this

WomenInConstruction · 18/10/2024 08:49

Moglet4 · 18/10/2024 08:49

OP, keep it simple. ‘Sorry sweetie, you didn’t quite manage it but I’m so proud of you for giving it a go. To be fair, kiddo, hardly anyone gets in anyway. Now, let’s have a look at all the extra-curricular x school offers’

👌

OrlandointheWilderness · 18/10/2024 08:50

WonderingWanda · 18/10/2024 06:23

Tell the truth. Learning to deal with disappointment is an important life skill. Let her feel a but disappointed and then help her move on and be excited about her new school.

This is why the teenagers I teach go to pieces at the slightest of bloody things! Parents, you don't need to shield them from everthing. Prepare them for the real world. Remind them that successful people have knock backs and what makes them successful is perseverance.

Agree with this. Learning to process disappointment like this is a vital skill.

WomenInConstruction · 18/10/2024 08:50

@Moglet4 what I was thinking but you put it so much better and more succinctly. 😁

CosyDenimShark · 18/10/2024 08:52

This happened to my oldest son too, now 20. He's actually glad he didn't go and with hindsight it wasn't the best school for him. He was 4 places off a place and we did the whole appeal thing but still didn't get in. DS2 got in to the Grammar so we worried DS1 would take that bad, but luckily he was pleased for him.
My advice would be to be honest and give the score if asked. Do you have an option to retake like we do here in a year or two? You could maybe soften the blow by saying "See how you go at the comp & if you don't like it we'll look at tutoring you for the 14+ to join later"? You'll probably find that they then don't want to go when friends are made at the comp.
It's tough this 11+ journey, I feel for you all