How to break bad news - 11+

[GoodIsGoodEnough]

My DC hasn't scored high enough to get into grammar. It was always going to be a long shot with much less tutoring than their peers, but I am still sad for them.

Any advice on how to tell them the news would be appreciated.

Do I give them their real score which is about 30 marks off, or do I say their score was closer (say 10 marks off)?

I hate that at 10 they're going to not feel "good enough". I never wanted the 11+, they got wind of it and wanted to do it. I feel like I've let them down.

I didn't go to grammar and I've read all the stories of people going to comps and doing well, which I'm sure she will, but just looking for some advice on how to handle this immediate situation today.

this happened to my daughter as well - she was fine with it and we did big up the local non-grammar - as it happened she had a great experience (got all the extension activities and opportunities because she was quite high academically for them) and ended up with fantastic GCSE grades (equal to her older sibling who did go to grammar) - then as an added bonus :) when it comes to University applications her non-grammar school got additional grade drops in offers due to being a more inclusive school.
It can be a big positive

This x 1000. She's definitely old enough to cope with the disappointment. It's going to be hard but you're there for her and will be able to say the right thing. Don't lie about the score or anything. She needs to know the reality and learn from it. It's up to you to make it a positive experience.

Can't you just say that you got the score, it wasn't high enough to get straight in and you'll have to see if they go down the waiting list. And then be positive about the alternatives. I got into some selective schools and didn't get into others. It's actually quite healthy to be able to work through failure. Many grammar school kids wait until much later in life to fail at anything and then having never failed, live with a fear of failure. It leads to a fixed mindset. Focus on how proud you are at DC for trying and come up with an alternative plan together on how their can achieve their goals.

I would just say 'I've just had a look and you got 183' then see how she reacts and take it from there. I would just stick to 'I'm really proud of you for doing it'. No need to make excuses for her or anything else, she did her best and that's all she can do. If you're very neutral about it and don't make a big thing of it then she will be ok even if she's a bit upset at first.

This is why the teenagers I teach go to pieces at the slightest of bloody things! Parents, you don't need to shield them from everthing. Prepare them for the real world. Remind them that successful people have knock backs and what makes them successful is perseverance.

I agree with this. Don't wrap them in cotton wool. You decided to compete and didn't win. Such is the nature of 11+ and any other competition. It's 11+ now, and will be uni application then competition for graduate roles and so on. Better grow a thick skin now as the competition is fierce.

My friend’s kids were tutored massively for the 11+. They were just averagely performing kids at primary school but they passed the 11+ thanks to the tutoring. They struggled hugely at their grammar schools, were miserable, had MH issues, and ended up dropping out. Their schools didn’t care about them, they put all their energies into kids who were getting top grades. They were happy for those that wouldn’t get those top grades to leave their schools, they wouldn’t want their league table standing affected now would they? The pastoral care was a joke.

It’s much better for kids to go to a school better suited to them.

Don’t lie to your daughter, but also don’t use the word “fail”. Just say she didn’t get the score she needed, but that really grammar schools are often not what they’re cracked up to be. Far better to go to a school more suitable for her and less competitive.

Don't lie to them.

Really your language about this should have been different a year ago. The children who get into grammar schools aren't "better" because the value of a human being is not measured in exam scores - the schools have a different kind of education and the test helps them make a guess at which 90/150/howevermany kids are most likely to benefit from that kind of education. It's not a perfect test and some of the people who scored high in the exam (especially if they had a lot of tuition to get there) will be really unhappy there, and a lot of kids who would have thrived there won't get in because they have to have a cutoff somewhere

Not getting in isn't a failure. Trying to get in was a roll of the dice - worth doing, but ultimately that was just one possible path and there will be plenty of positive things about other paths.

There will be plenty of bright, engaged and enthusiastic pupils at the nonselecrive school DC goes to. It will only feel like failure if you make it so.

No! They might forever hold it against the OP. Anyway, it doesn’t make sense or why would the OP have let them take the exam in the first place.

Lie.

I have a good adult friend who sat for the school I attended she gave me an elaborate story about how she was no 1 on waitlist and should have gone there except for… detailed story about imaginary nepotism her parents made up.

she is bright clever and successful and still believe the yarn her parents spun her 30 years ago.

grammar is nice / desirable but not the be all and end all

I feel guilty we didn't play the tutoring system well enough

I’m not sure what you mean, op?
It isn’t really a ‘system’. Either you pay for tutoring, or you don’t! Some parents just can’t afford it, some could, but decide not to, and they ‘tutor’ at home instead, with practice papers etc., if their kids are co-operative enough to do work at home (mine weren’t!). There’s nothing an 11+ tutor does, that can’t be done at home. Basically it’s familiarising them with the different types of question they’re going to get, explaining how to approach them, and lots and lots of practice. As many parents find, though, their children work much better for a teacher/tutor than they would at home, but tutoring’s not a golden ticket. Not all children who have tutoring get through the exam.

The bigger deal you make of it the bigger deal it will seem to her.

So I would just be breezy and unconcerned yet supportive if she feels upset. Just emphasise how bright and talented she is and how it makes no real difference.

Private school kids do several sets of exams at 11 - they pass some and fail others. Failing an exam doesn’t ruin anyone’s life. It’s good practice.

I would just try and keep it simple. Be honest, let her know that you know she worked hard and did her best. It wasn’t to be. Everyone takes the same GCSEs and A levels, it doesn’t mean anything at this stage. It often comes down to who has a good day and who has a bad day.

My DD got over it in about 10 seconds because I don’t really think she really wanted to go. I felt we had to give her a shot. She’s thriving in the comprehensive.

Don’t make a big deal of it. Tell her she did really well - 183 is a good mark! But that clearly it means she will thrive much more at a school which isn’t so focussed on academic things and will let her flourish in other ways too. Big up the schools you will be looking at, and their facilities. If you show that you aren’t disappointed she won’t feel so bad.

Tell her the truth! Life is NOT a bed of roses! Tell her you are proud of her effort!

Oh and fyi for some posters, where I live the 11+ covers year 6 maths, and you take the exam at the beginning of yr 6, so realistically you do need some kind of tutoring.

Tutors are usually primary school teachers who understand what the tests are asking. That’s what you pay for. For most people, a tutor is part of the process, but as in my case, didn’t make the difference for my DD. Did for my DS, but there you go.

OP, you sound like a lovely mum. I’m sure you’ll find the right words. 💐

I’d just tell her the truth in a matter of fact way-

you did very well, 183 is a great score but you didn’t get high enough to get in. More people won’t get in than will and you worked hard which is the most important thing. Exams are always tricky. We are really proud of you and we can go out for dinner/buy X thing you asked for/go to the fair etc to celebrate how hard you worked.

OP both my DCs "failed" the 11+. Actually they both "passed" but neither of them with quite enough marks to get into the local grammar though they'd probably both have got into the one further afield but we all agreed it would be a bit of a trek every morning.

DD has just started at a Russell group uni oddly enough having done well at GCSEs and gone to the grammar for 6th form. DS who actually has learning difficulties and did amazingly well to pass at all is probably in the best place because the comprehensive offers as much support as possible and I think he'd not have thrived in grammar. I didn't tutor either of them although with DS we did do some stuff to familiarise him with the paper format as he asked to - DD on the other hand didn't know it was multi choice until she got there

But the thing is grammar isn't for everyone. It's hugely competitive and stressful when you get there and so many kids fail under the pressure and either spiral and /or end up leaving - especially the ones who had to be heavily tutored to get in. Your dd is going to do really well at her local school if she did that well in the 11+ with no tuition - take her to the open evenings and she'll soon be distracted and looking forward to other things. Also she will absolutely not be the only one who didn't get in so lots of her friends will be with her

Just be honest and tell her the truth. If she's bright enough, she's probably the sort that'd want to see what you received anyway.

One positive, she can go to secondary/comp and hopefully be in the top sets and thrive. It doesn't mean she won't get really good grades if she works hard to move onto A levels, uni or a decent career.

Oh bless you OP, great you want to do all you can to reassure your daughter. Remind her this is not the be all and end all, there will be plenty of opportunities in the future. She will go a long way being self motivated like what you described.

This post reminds me of my own journey of grammar school entrance exams. I didn’t make it and my cruel mother berated me for weeks saying I was a failure and a stupid child 😔 My self esteem took a massive tumble, still affects me today.

Good on you for wanting to support your daughter, wishing you both the very best! Remember she will succeed anywhere with the right work ethic and drive xx

And there is nothing wrong in asking for advice about a new situation, OP. I think you sound like a great parent with a great kid.

For yourself, you can be totally genuine when talking about how DC will likely thrive in whichever secondary school they go to as you’ve read lots of stories here. This will help, along with the knowledge that even if your DC experiences some short-lived disappointment or even upset, this is actually a good thing as they will learn that life goes on, and they can get over things apparently not going their way. Watching their resilience grow you can be proud, as that is a much more important life skill going forward than getting the right score to go to a grammar school.

My daughter refused to do hers. The school called me just before to say she didn't want to do it as she was well aware she wasn't getting into a grammar school. It was the best decision for her and she doesn't regret it not one bit

I feel guilty we didn't play the tutoring system well enough and trying to separate my guilt from the disappointment for her.

You have nothing to feel guilty for.

I've known a few parents that went down this route and the problem with doing tutoring to pass the 11+ is that you're just trying to get a pass that'll get you into a grammar school and once that pass is obtained your DC has to maintain that level of learning ability in the actual school, if you see what I mean, and for some it was difficult and the DC felt under pressure.

My thoughts were better to be in a school where they'll flourish and be happy learning rather than struggling and dreading walking through the gates.

Can your DC resit if they're dead set on going to Grammar school, that's an option in our area?

I was always of the mind that the 11+ shouldn't define a child, if children put the work in they will pass their GCSE's in any school they go to.

The pass/fail thing is a bit of a hurtful myth. Interesting that you know scores and what score - usually - secures a place in the grammar school.

As some know, and others may not, places go to the top however many places there are. Not sure if there is a boys/girls allocation or whether summer borns are looked at favourably?

I've always taught in Comprehensive school areas and so coaching etc played no part in my own job or in my own children's Y6 life. Fortunately.

So coaching... It ends up a competition. I learnt this from a former pupil who had y6 children of his own.

1. If you have a bright child you have to ensure that their score is above the vacancies available threshold - so you get them coached. You don't want them overtaken by the next group down and loosing 'their' place.
2. If your child is on the borderline - you get them coached because you might manage to get their score above the vacancies available threshold.
3. If your child isn't that academic you still get them coached - they might just get in? If all their friends are coached it doesn't look good to your child - that you are saying that it's not worth it, that they are too thick if you don't go down the coaching route.

Then there's the cost.

Are some bright children deserving of a place failed because other richer coached children get 'their' place?
Are some just wasting money on coaching?

Then there's the coping when in the school.

Group 1 will be fine with the more academic workload - the curriculum is aimed at them and their intellect, abilities, and potential.
Group 2 might be ok, might not be.
Group 3 will struggle, not be happy and will not meet with a lot of success.

I'm not that keen on selective schools, I've seen my own children, and others flourish in comprehensive school. I've seen less academic pupils do well after a slow start.

So to the OP's case. Not an easy one. Maybe tackle it a bit at a time, big up the other comprehensive school? Be honest - say it's unlikely? For most children it's better to be at the top of a lower group than at the bottom of a higher one.

Currently in our house - secondary school selection for our y6 Ukrainian refugee child. No 11 plus but complicated entrance criteria in which you can fall between the gaps in the various criteria of different schools.

How about something along the lines of ‘you did really well and I’m so proud of you etc but it’s so competitive and so many children applied and they are able to choose the children who got the tip top results. So even though you did really well, they can’t offer you a place’. Then accept her disappointment and commiserate, comfort her as needed. But show you are not disappointed or upset.
And then on to all the positives about the other school etc.
I agree you can’t lie or protect them from everything just help them manage their feelings around it. Kids are resilient and have already had moments where they haven’t been picked/made the team so hopefully it can be seen in a similar light?
For what it’s worth, I hate the 11+ system. Poor kids!