How the heck are we supposed to sleep if newborn won’t go in a crib?

[PBQ123]

I’ve been awake for coming up to 48 hours straight now. Newborn won’t go into a crib. Will stay there for ten mins then cry. Swaddling doesn’t work. So only option is to hold to sleep. We are so tired neither of us can be trusted to do this without falling asleep ourselves. I am EBF but this isn’t going to work is it. What are you supposed to do? Naively bought a Next to Me and Moses basket assuming baby would be happy to go in them. We haven’t even left the hospital yet though and it’s clear they were a waste of money.

Milton wipes are your best friend for sterilising dummies.

Your updates are giving me such strong flashbacks of me this time a year ago! Learning as we went, problem solving through sleep deprivation. It's true what they say about first borns, you both learn together. I so wish i could go back in time with ehat I now know and apply it to then but thats not how life works, gotto learn the hard way 😅 My sister used a tommy tippee steam steriliser for dummies and bottles. We used boiling water after washing the soothers, as kitchen was tiny for a big steam steriliser, and had MAM bottles that sterilise in the microwave.

unfortunately they’re not magic but I hope it at least helps a bit!

I think your sleep deprivation is affecting you badly. If you are being upset by lights and noises in the hospital, remember all that will change soon when you get home. Please don't forget that new babies have built in antennae and register the slightest commotion or stress. Somehow, you have to let it all go and focus on ciddling your baby (and your spouse[!

Your midwife sounds really good! Nice to hear you got some very sound advice.

If you're ending up holding him all night definitely persist with following safe cosleeping advice, it's so much easier and you can all get some sleep. A lot of babies do prefer to be held than to sleep next to their mum but they get used to it! My baby struggled to feed on her side when she was really tiny. I recommend a muslin cloth rolled up then propped under your boob to help them latch on on their side.

@CatsnCoffeeetal bullshit. Safe cosleeping is way safer than accidentally falling asleep while holding a baby. The studies on cosleeping are very flawed and compare unsafe cosleeping with not bed sharing. Safe cosleeping is absolutely fine if you follow guidance. Educate yourself and learn to read studies a bit more critically.

Please please make sure that you get the midwifes to take the baby away if you are that tired, or at least make sure someone watches you feed them so that you don't fall to sleep during those first few days. It's exhausting. But if you feel that you could fall to sleep whilst feeding, tell the midwives.

Oh and before anyone says 'but the NHS says cosleeping is unsafe' it's because firstly they use the flawed studies and secondly because they are aiming at the lowest common denominator who they don't trust to follow safe sleeping guidance so they just say a blanket no. If you look at the SIDS rate in countries that tend to cosleep eg Japan it's lower than the rate in places that don't, like the UK and USA.

I know you’ve probably thought of this but in post birth exhaustion it took me way too long to consider just ditching the next to me for a bit and using Moses basket next to the bed. If he likes the Moses basket (at least a bit) might be worth a try. Hope your husband repaid you earlier by taking a shift while you slept.

Sending so much love, it’s so tough. My 4month old didn’t really go into her nexttome until she was about 10 weeks. I thought my first was a bad sleeper but this was next level ! The first weeks we got by by doing shifts. One of us would get some sleep then switch. Then when my partner went back to work he would cover 8-11 while I got some solid sleep and then I coslept. I know that’s not working for you right now but it might eventually.

You might have covered this but have you got any friends or family who can help ? My parents came round one night and sat with baby downstairs while I got some sleep upstairs !

try and get out as much during the day as possible. Baby will eventually work out day and night.

lastly while lots of people will say it’s normal etc, if baby isn’t wanting to lay down on their back could be reflux ? Both mine had reflux and tongue tie. If you think it could be reflux (and if there is no sick could still be silent reflux) then I’d suggest visiting the doctor. And if it continues to be an issue keep going back. They do tend to fob off reflux and colic (my most hated word).

It’s really annoying when people say it will get better, used to irritate me so much first time round. But it does really get better. Month by month until you look back and can’t even remember that haze xx

OP have you tried a sleepy head or similar pod? They aren’t recommended for safe sleep so I never used it over night/unsupervised but my first baby sounds very similar to yours

She hated being laid flat but loved her sleepyhead as it hugs you in a bit and feels more like you’re being held. It saved my life (no exaggeration)
it gave me a bit of peace in the day to just chill out and not hold her the entire time

Alternatively does he like his pram? For my 6 week old we bring her pram inside and use a rockit (Google if you’re unsure) and it keeps her asleep unlike the moses basket

I hope it improves for you, it’s torture to be so sleep deprived but it will get better 🌺

The ‘cosleeping isn’t safe’ is really quite annoying when you are awake for days. It’s actually more unsafe to fall asleep on the sofa holding the baby than follow the guidelines for how to cosleep safely. Doctors and health visitors will tell you not to do it but you also can’t be permanently awake !!

Poor you, OP. I’m another who turned to cosleeping and I ended up doing it with three children. Done safely it is safe. I had a ridiculous health visitor with my third who got very cross when I told her I coslept, and went back to her office and looked up a study that had recently been released on the hazards of cosleeping (which had immediately been debunked but she didn’t get that from Google obviously).

But it was the only way my eldest would sleep. All of mine graduated eventually into a bedside crib, then a cot, then a bed, with no trouble.

No 2 I had a section and baby was tucked next to me propeD up in a v pillow .
She lay there for 3 days no one moved her. Back at home I aid a large crib attached to the bed and she ebf and then had her own space and I had mine.
I fed her on her bit then I gently moved a teeny bit to mine rather than wake her. I slept beautifully and far better than with no 1 who I moved into a moses basket next to the bed

The gro bag arrived; we have tried it with him in the Moses basket and he lasted six minutes.

We went out for a short pram walk. He tolerated the pram, didn’t seem to be upset by it, so when we came in we removed the bassinet and left him in it. He lasted 15 minutes.

We have tried him in the Moses basket a couple of times hoping to get him to do a couple of hours like yesterday. Sadly, no joy. He’s screaming within ten minutes.

At current rate I will have fed him 15 times before midnight. We’re getting no rest. He slept on me for 1.5 hours this afternoon and DH managed to nap a bit. He won’t sleep on DH. Again within about ten minutes he cries and is looking for the breast. So DH is feeling crap too because he can’t console him and because he feels he can’t support me.

We can’t see a tongue tie. He hasn’t been sick after feeding but today we did see a tiny (tiny!) bit of milk come up after one of the feeds. And when in the crib last night (another failed effort) he sounded a bit gurgly. So maybe it’s reflux. I do wind him after every feed and he does a good burp. He is farting and his poos and wees are fine.

I have just come into the kitchen to sterilise those soothers I mentioned earlier. DH has been holding him. It’s been about five minutes and I can hear DS crying ☹️ We’ve changed his nappy, he’s warm, he was fed at 17:40, 19:00, 20:10 (sleepy) and 21:25 (didn’t seem as if he wanted a feed just comfort), so he isn’t hungry. We just don’t know what it is that he wants. Why won’t he lie down flat?? Why won’t he go to sleep?

Edit to add, we also tried some of the things yesterday’s midwife suggested, like getting the mat out of the Moses basket and lying him on it when feeding so he’s warmed it, then transferring to the Moses basket. I don’t need to tell you, it didn’t work.

Have you tried waiting 20 minutes till he’s in a deep sleep to put him down?

At this point with my 7mo, I tried feeding her to sleep lying down then cosleeping, keeping my warm body against hers. It took me a while to crack side lying feeding. I started by feeding sitting in bed then once asleep, sort of slinking my body down holding her with one arm and using the other to get down onto the mattress, all the while keeping her body in full contact with mine.
This all aims to avoid the transfer which inevitably wakes baby. Don't worry about winding after a feed if baby is comfortable which he obviously is if he's asleep.
Check out the La Leche League safe sleep 7 and Lullaby Trust to make sure you're doing it safely.
It's a tough time OP. You're doing great.

The frequent comfort feeding sounds refluxy. Mine was bottle fed expressed milk due to a tongue tie sonwe could totally up what he ate and one day it was near 30oz before we realised together, he fed to soothe the reflux pain but it then made it worse. He also didn't tolerate the pram til we swapped the flat bassinet for the next one up which was slightly I cloned and made a u shape with blankets below his bum to keep him secure. Hopefully it passes for your little one soon, in our case it was cmpi and he was on omerazole and dairy free formula.

My next to me style crib had a slight incline mode, might he worth a try? Or else we had to hold him til he was deeply asleep and transfer and catch a shirt nap. Also, we found that changing his nappy after a night feed didn't help as the process oishes on their tummy, so we used to have to wait 30 mins before doing it or use the side technique instead, which worked well. My son never spat up, it was silent reflux, we could hear him swallowing what came up in a tiny high pitched gulp sound, does your baby make a sound like that?

So many typos sorry typing in bed next to my still jot great sleeper 1 year old

The frequent feeding sounds like cluster feeding, both of mine did this in the early days. Basically feeding continuously from about 6pm til ten, and then again every 2 hours through the night. It was hellish and we did resort to formula in the end with ds, just so I could sleep. It was fine, I was still able to bf him, and it helped. Dd used to grizzle and cry the whole time until about 10pm, I walked miles around the bedroom because I couldn't even sit down with her, let alone put her down.

With ds, stuff that helped was propping one end of his crib up slightly (the head end) so he wasn't completely flat on his back. White noise, and swaddling worked for him too. Very thorough burping too. Also waiting until he was very deeply asleep to put him down. Finally if he started to stir I would give him a minute to see if he settled back down, before i scooped him up, just to give him a chance to drop back off. if he didn't I'd put a hand on his chest or rub his tummy for a minute. Sometimes it worked and he'd drop back off after a little grizzle.

Read up on the fourth trimester. He won't sleep away from you, not because of anything you are or aren't doing, that's just some babies. You can't try and 'fix' this situation. You've tried everything you can, you just have to keep going and trying. It's really really really hard. DH and I felt like we'd been hit by a train when DD1 was born. I remember saying to the midwife how this can't be normal for a baby... she just looked at us as if to say "I'm afraid it is..."

Keep tag teeming together, take it in turns to get as much sleep as you can. Easy meals, do whatever you can to survive at this moment in time! It does get easier, I promise.

You've got this.

The only thing that worked with my first was (safe) co-sleeping. He wanted to be held from the moment he was born and was not giving in. Naps were in my arms or we both went to co-nap. It did turn out he had silent reflux (when he was 9 months). A swaddle up did help a lot.

I agree with the person who said to look at countries like Japan with low SIDs rates. They co-sleep. Choosing to safely co-sleep is far safer than falling asleep unexpectedly with baby. No pillow etc is an adjustment but you get used to it.

Remember, you will feel like you are dying from sleep deprivation, but it will eventually get better. I promise. And on the upside, I can now stay 48 hours on the trot like a pro🤣

You're doing really well OP. It's totally normal for them to feed all evening intermittently at that age, it's cluster feeding. You need to write doing anything but feeding off for a bit in the evenings.

Both of mine were bloody awful sleepers and none of the 'techniques' worked with either of them. They wouldn't lie flat. I very quickly moved to side feeding and safe co sleeping with them both. Unfortunately there was no magic answer (no tongue tie, no reflux), nothing we bought helped. With DD2 the sleepy head might have helped a tiny bit.

Real classic mumsnet response but- do you have a sling? You can at least do some hands free chilling. It will very slowly get better, if it helps my first bad sleeper became a champion snoozer at 20 months while others were having a different set of toddler sleep trauma.

Sorry to be blunt, but you need to look up safe chest sleeping and safe co sleeping and try side lying.
my second and third babies wouldn’t take a dummy, so please don’t pin your hopes on those soothers helping.
your baby needs you to be close, there probably ain’t anything wrong. He is being a normal baby. Feeding 15 times can be quite normal. My 5m old has fed at 7, 9, 11 and is feeding now too.
however, you can’t diagnose a tongue tie by looking, even as a professional. You need an IBCLC to put fingers in his mouth. You also should get his latch assessed properly just to rule out any feeding issues, but he is feeding for comfort and he is supposed to do that.
its hard, I completely understand. Literally just went through it myself. It’s very very hard. But you have to find a way to get some
sleep while still doing what your baby needs.
chest sleeping and co sleeping, probably short term are what are going to get you through. You have no choice.
it will get better. And your baby is doing what most other babies do. Google the fourth trimester too, reading up on it really helps adjusts your expectations. And stop timing how long he will sleep elsewhere, it won’t help you.

Is he getting the milk?

My niece wasnt, 4 different midwives told my sister she was

…

Oh could be reflux, have u tried lifting the head end of the moses basket?
From the floor ONLY , do not tilt the mattress
Put a book or two on the floor of the head end and see if baby will settle that way