How to manage grandchild situation

[Blueflipflops]

My son is doing very well for himself, he is married and has lived abroad with his wife for the last 5 years earning good money. He has a son who is 2 , let’s call him Jack. As they lived abroad, Jack doesn't really know us.

My son, his wife and Jack have recently returned to the Uk and he lives close by. I was so happy that they were returning and I was now able to get to know Jack.

Jack has had one main care giver, his mum. From my observations, Jack hasn’t had many interactions with any other humans. He hasn’t been socialised at all and is always by his mums side or on her hip. He will always choose his mum over his dad in getting his needs met.

Now, getting to the point….
Jack is absolutely terrified of us. He cries, physically trembles, clings onto his mum petrified that she is going to put him down. He is hyper alert watching our every move. He won’t come any where near us. I would go to say that he presents as being traumatised when in our company.
It’s absolutely heart breaking that Jack is so fearful of us.

I don’t believe these behaviours are due to an undiagnosed condition, I think it’s because he has been isolated and lack of socialisation.

Yesterday, I had to drop an item off at my sons, I knocked and let myself in as they were expecting me. Jack took one look at me, ran to his mum and started to tremble and cry.

In 2 years, I have never held him, picked him up, fed him, played with him, sang to him, rocked him to sleep, pushed his pram. It’s heartbreaking, I don’t know the best way forward. It has now come to the point where I dread seeing him as it’s so awful for everyone involved. No one knows what to do to make things better.

Do I keep my distance so he is not further traumatised by my visiting or do I persevere in trying to build a relationship?

“He will always choose his mum over his dad in getting his needs met.”

absolutely normal

“In 2 years, I have never held him, picked him up, fed him, played with him, sang to him, rocked him to sleep, pushed his pram. It’s heartbreaking”

agreed. This is heartbreaking for you.

“Do I keep my distance so he is not further traumatised by my visiting or do I persevere in trying to build a relationship?”

This needs to be decided by his parents. If they would like him to have a relationship with you then you all (especially his mum and you) need to work together to make that happen.

Specific strategies could be worked out to encourage him to see you as firstly a non-threatening person and then as someone he relates to. It will take time and patience.

Yes, my advice was based on my lockdown experience with DD, she was 5 months at lockdown, used to see my parents from the window regularly but we still had to take things very slowly once restrictions were lifted.
Little things like never having seen my mum in glasses so she was terrified of nana if Nana had her glasses on.

I’ve only seen this kind of clinginess in kids with sahm they rarely see. I bet they had nannies you didn’t know about and now the poor child has lost them he’s clinging to mum. Just say hi to him when you see him, acknowledge him when he interacts with you, but otherwise let him have control about when how he interacts with you.

Not applicable for a child who is 2 rn

Aw bless him. I work with children and that doesn't seem normal at all. If he reacted like that if he was left alone with you, I would completely understand but not when his main caregiver was there.

This sounds tough for you and the child. It is normal for young children to prefer mum. When i was little I was told I would cry whenever one of my grandfathers visited. He had a very loud laugh (laughed a lot), loud voice and smoked a pipe (and at first I didn’t like the smell). I am not saying this is you OP but out of love could you perhaps be too much for the child in some way maybe wearing strong smelling perfume, talking loudly/too much, or pushing for too much, too soon which may make the child wary and them want to back off more?

MIL lived a few hours away so when she visited our DC she tried to cram in a few weeks love into a weekend, which was too much. As babies she cuddled them too tightly and for too long which made them too hot so so they cried for me (which didn’t go down well with her so she complained and created tension).

When older she was judgemental and made comments if they were playing with other children or a toy in preference to being all over her, all of the time or not coming straight away when she called them. She also made comments like would you not rather stay at nannies for a sleepover and we’ll send your mummy home or similar (which terrified them, as it was too much). Eventually they came round to her on their terms.

Take it slow and steady and be led by the child. I am sure they will come round eventually. Also make a real genuine effort with your DIL and she will help you build your relationship which will come but please resist the urge to push too hard too soon and or blaming your DIL as this is normal for them to gravitate to mum if they feel scared, wary, unsure or uncomfortable etc.

Of course it is. How often has he seen op in real life before. If it's the first time he's physically seeing them then they're strangers to him.
Even if they were doing regular video calls, to a child a physical presence is so very different.
DD was 11 months or thereabouts when first lockdown ended, she was so used to seeing everyone on a screen, a physical meet up was overwhelming for her.

yes it absolutely is.

While you know him, he doesn't yet know you. He doesn't know that you're a safe person who loves him - that will take time. He's had a huge upheaval, and is at an age where a degree of clinging to a primary caregiver is common, so it's not unexpected that he's struggling with meeting new people.

We had a similar challenge, @Blueflipflops , in relation to a relative moving from abroad to nearer us. Our DC was not comfortable with them at all and would refuse to look at them, run away from them, etc. It wasn't what we expected (DC is normally pretty good at meeting new people) but we accepted that was DC's starting point and worked from there. Initially, we just had times when that relative would be in the house at the same time as DC - we interacted normally, showing that everyone was happy and comfortable and safe, with no expectations on DC at all. Gradually, DC started spending time in the room with that relative, then playing near them, then went to them. It took a couple of months to get to a stage of DC feeling comfortable with them, but we got there and now DC has quite a good relationship with that person.

That's really hard on all of you. Have you spoken to the parents about it? Is this normal behaviour for him? Is it just with you? Is it new behaviour since the move? It is normal for small children to be attached to their mum especially in situations where they feel uncomfortable/ threatened. But at the same time there might be an undiagnosed condition. Have you chatted to the parents about it? Are you just landing in his space or are they giving him some warning "grandma is coming round soon for a cup of tea". I remember my son struggled with new situations and people at that age and some advance warning of the change was very reassuring to him. I would take it very slow. Don't hurry the process. Don't get in his space. Build the trust and let him come to you. It must be so upsetting as I am sure you are desperate to have him on your knee and read him a story or walk around the garden holding his hand. I am sure you will but it needs some patience and understanding. x

I’d be gutted too but I think you’ve had great advice here as to not approaching him but just chatting amiably to his mum and dad, progressing to sitting on the floor at times playing with something enticing by yourself while you chat once he’s more comfortable with you being in the house. Avoid any excited greetings, weird though that feels.

I know two families where the baby/ toddler was/ is incredibly clingy to the mum, even to the exclusion of the dad. In both cases both mum and dad were lovely and it was hard for the dads as they adored their boys but would rarely be “permitted” any closeness. Fortunately in both cases the dads knew it wasn’t down to anything their wife was doing wrong, indeed the mums would have been only too happy to be able to detach from their much loved babies for stretches. It is exhausting to have a Velcro baby or toddler. Neither mum was selfish or obstructive of the babies going to dad, the babies just developed a strong need to be on mum by around three months old. One of these babies is now 6 and for the past two years has been all the other way and dad is the business and mum very much in second place, which my she does struggle with, - but again it’s not due to any alienation by dad, it’s come from the child. At 2 the other boy is still all mum despite going to nursery. If she’s there, he wants her. She gets touched out.

Lots of 2 year olds are shy of strangers and clingy with their mum. If you want to build a relationship with a more reserved, fearful or introverted type person then it has to be done in a non confrontational way. Don’t walk into their house for a start - his mum knew you were coming but it was a shock for him. Don’t be stand-offish and critical or distant or snippy with the person who is the centre of his universe. Don’t expect the sort of relationship he has with his mum to be handed to you when you are very literally a stranger. Don’t be overly coaxing - “I like your bunny, he looks very cuddly” or “I like Bluey too - I think think Bluey’s dad is really funny” is fine “show me your bunny, give him to grandma, let me see, what’s his name, can I touch, give him to grandma, awww, let me cuddle him!” Or “are you watching Bluey! Jack, Jack, Jack! Are you watching Bluey? Who is that? That one! That’s Bingo isn’t it! Is that bingo? Jack, is that bingo?” is not. Don’t ignore him completely, but do give him lots of space and don’t make any demands. Be LOVELY to his mum.

If the parents are happy for you to do so then still see him regularly, but just smile when you arrive and then continue to interact with his parents and basically take little notice of him. He will come to see you as harmless as he gradually realises that his parents just act normal around you. I know it is hard, but softly softly is the way to go.

The first time one of my GC was left with me at 9 months when her Mum went back to work, she just sat on my lap staring into the room. Would not speak or respond to me in any way. So I just sat there, let her deal with it in her own way - did not interact or try and coax her in any way. We sat like that for nearly an hour as she took in the situation, then she started to relax and by the end of the day she was fine and playing happily with me. We just have to go at their pace.

So is your DGS the same with everyone? If he is then he just needs to get used to you, if not then i am sure the parents will be working on this issue with nursery/schools when it comes to him having to integrate with other children/adults. My DGS after covid lockdown (born in 2019) was very clingy to his mum and cried and was traumatised all the time once things started to get back to normal he just wasn't used to 'normal life'. Now (he's 5) he is shy with strangers but perfectly normal with all those he knows. Dont worry, dont push it and and as everyone has said, give it time.

In 2 years, I have never held him, picked him up, fed him, played with him, sang to him, rocked him to sleep, pushed his pram.

So neither side visited each other?

“owner” ???

In 2 years, I have never held him, picked him up, fed him, played with him, sang to him, rocked him to sleep, pushed his pram

Where the hell have you been that in 2 years you have never held your grandchild?

I can't imagine not visiting my grandchild in their home (even if it was the other side of the world), or my own DC not visiting AT ALL with their treasured offspring - for 2 whole years!

I have a feeling that there is a massive back story here, that's going to be drip fed...

I think this sounds quite normal for a two year old - actually lack of appropriate hesitancy of unfamiliar people is a key sign of autism . Relationships do take time to build and you said yourself he doesn't know you - start small with short visits and focus on chatting to his parents rather than homing in on him and over time he will come to accept you and the relationship can build from there

🤣🤣🤣 you need to get a grip.

I have a 2 year old and I'm around a lot of 2 year olds (friends and family) I also go to lots of places where young children are (parks, soft play etc.) and I have never seen a child terrified of anyone. If anything, most children that age are fearless and talk to anyone. I often get random 2 year olds sitting and chatting with me when I'm with my son.

But I guess my child and others im around are social and use to being around strangers. Not all children get those interactions, which I assume will impact their confidence

He's two. And that's normal for many two year olds.

It's not for you to tell your son how to parent. Or to say they have not socialised him enough.

This isn't your child.

Deal with it.

Just because present and let your child grow up until he is an age when he can communicate independently.

I also agree with cat comments. I never had problems with small children in my life but my general strategy is always smile and keep distance ( because to be honest I’m not a big fan of small children) and to bring treats (because I was brought up that its a polite thing to do). I never want to hold them or hug them or to have any sort of physical contact. So little buggers always approach me and initiate contact. I never met a child yet who was scared of me.

This is me! I'm very relaxed around children because I'm not bothered about winning their affection.

My MIL is so desperate to make a bond with DS that she overwhelms him and ignores his signals to do what she wants. (At the weekend she was desperate for him to stay around at a house party and was all "it's a bank holiday, normal rules don't apply!" - except my son doesn't know that it's a bank holiday and doesn't want to be poked and prodded by all her friends well into the evening).

And if there's a whiff of judgement in real life, the baby will pick up that mum is tense. And why would the baby want to hang out with someone who makes their mum tense?

“ If kids are immediately becoming very comfortable with strangers (which you in effect are at the moment) it’s more of a red flag IMO.”

absolutely correct
There’s nothing wrong at all with a two year old being strongly attached to his mother. It’s extremely healthy. Sadly this isn’t well understood.

Fully agree this must be very upsetting for you, but your judgement of his mother is clear as day.

Work with his parents, but likely this will just take a lot of time. Getting in his face will probably be completely counter productive. She was younger than your DGS is now, but my eldest hated my lovely MIL as a baby, which was really weird as MIL is brilliant with kids. They're best friends now. Every time MIL got in her face set things back a bit! MIL understandably felt she needed to play her way into DD's affections, but actually it was when she took a bit of a step back that DD started to enjoy her.

Say a cheery hello, don't approach him. Bring little toys or treats with you sometimes, but just say "I've brought you this teddy Jack, I'll just leave it over here for you".

Were you part of their lives before 2?
Or did you just appear (a stranger, effectively) at that age?

Honestly my niece (and nephew to a degree, but mainly my niece) was the same and we also put it down to her not being socialised very much. When she started nursery and school she soon snapped out of it though, hopefully it will be the same for you.

It was very upsetting and made every meet up quite traumatic; she was even like it with her cousins (my children). Just keep plodding on and not making a big deal of it and I am sure it will work out.