British working/lower class only

[TinklySnail]

I’m personally not okay with rioting but understand why it’s happening.
What is the best way to fix this issue and do you think it is mass immigration that has caused it?

The same thing hapened in many other countries- if you look at Eastern Europe, there were huge regions that depended on coal mining, and the shipyards by the Baltic Sea. All of it gone in the 80s/early 90s. Same thing as here- massive strikes prevented nothing. And yet, do you hear of people rioting in the streets for weeks on end 30 years later and throwin petrol bombs at the police? No. Because it's not happening.
Poverty still exists, but many kids and grandkids of miners, shipyard workers etc do work in other fields at present. Don't think people were really shown HOW. Thye just had to. The transition was very hard and some areas are still very very poor- not to the same extent and using the excuse of collapsed industries to sit and do nothing.

no.i don't think they are lying. I think the problem is that there is no.long term planning so.they have realised they need more doctors and nurses simply because they have been forced to recruit from abroad . But now a few years later having trained more staff they have no funding at present to.actually employ them due to a spending freeze.
It seems to me that a lot of decisions are made with a short term view and no long term consideration. So it is all about balancing the books in this financial year rather than investing in the short term in order to manage resources better in the long term and ultimately saving money in the longer term.
It isn't just the NHS it also seems to be an issue in social care and disability services etc .
I don't know if I am explaining it v well though ,!

Yes, we have 18m more people here than when I was born. The issues are all quite complicated and vary around the country. However the record numbers for legal and illegal immigration are simply facts and for some groups of people in the UK this has not been a benefit to them.

Ireland at the moment has protests at many asylum centres where those people inside - mostly young men - are being put up in places locals could not afford. However thje impact on the housing situation in general is caused must more by 1.2m immigration a year (lawful immigration), about 640k net immigration which the Tories said they would reduce to 10,000 and clearly did not happen. We are one of the most popular countries on the planet.

EnergyEmoji · Today 16:40
Ritasueandbobtoo9 · Yesterday 23:14
UK had 56 million people when I was a child, now 67 million. That not UK people having loads of kids. Nobody has built enough homes over the last 50 years. Hospital beds have been cut. 11million people to house = housing crisis. Asylum seekers do get housed temporarily in some way and then when they get leave to stay get housed. People can see that for themselves so I don’t know why people disassociate the two issues. People are sick of being gaslighted about this.
I agree with this.

See the issues but attribute the wrong cause maybe.
Tory leavers had 6 years to solve the problem of immigration. Brexiteers had 6 years with their team in power. 6 years to spout inflammatory rhetoric without consequence in perfect harmony with what working class towns supposedly wanted. Winding them up, inflaming tensions, picking on any vulnerable minority whether it was immigrants, benefit claimants or trans people, just any means to divert attention from their shite record.
But funnily those problems that should have been solved by Brexit with its brakes on EU immigration/freedom of movement weren’t, in fact they got worse. Surely if anything working class people should be absolutely fucking disbelieving of anything the tories ever say in the future, none of it has worked, left behind towns are still left behind, public services are still crumbling, 700k migrants still came but this time not white East Europeans. What an absolute shambles.

However thje impact on the housing situation in general is caused must more by 1.2m immigration a year (lawful immigration), about 640k net immigration which the Tories said they would reduce to 10,000 and clearly did not happen

The visa requirements are very strict and have been fir some time.
That means the immigrants here are here because we need them.
Sayinb they would reduce migration yo 10.000 was just propaganda that appealed to some groups. It was never achievable.
Well not if you don’t want doctors to come, entrepreneurs, scientists etc etc….

Brexit, because EU citizens aren’t keen in coming anymore, also means that actually more immigrants from other parts of the world are replacing them. I dint think that’s what a lot if brexit voting people wanted or were expecting. 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Serbia and Romania's had riots in 2017.
Romanian protests 2012 and 2013
Slovenia 2012
Kosovo's 2011
Serbia 2010

Do you need more?
Does no one do history anymore?

Alongside these were France, Russia, Greece, Stockholm and more.

Perhaps it would have been better not to have the free movement in the early 00s in the first place. Was it necessary

Perhaps it would have been better if we had avoided the council home sell off

Perhaps it would be better if we had better tenant rights and rent controls

Perhaps it would be better if we had far fewer second homes

These are things the Tory government could have sorted

But instead let's blame other ordinary people

Have I said only UK has riots? I mean, France is famous for them (except that often it's the priviledged middle class people behind them really).
The reason for riots is ever so slightly different. It's only in the UK people use businesses closing in the 80s as an excuse to still not be working and your kids and grandkids not working to this extent.

And the Labour gov too, surely, I have no clue why they don’t stop right to buy but no one does.

No because the rest of Europe restricted it - it was 300,000 a year then and then just continued and probably increased. I remember T May as Home Sec was going to reduce it to 200,000 pa and failed totally.
If we were getting hundreds of thousands of doctors and health workers a year for the last 20 years the nhs would be working well so we are obviously not getting that type of worker.

I did wonder

True

However I think Tony Blair has a lot to answer for

I realise this is quite late to the conversation and the irony of your user name (in German) is not lost on me.

"Strangers"? behaving badly - what all of them?
My family is originally from the north (with a now independent MP), the difference in the community from my youth to today is remarkable. But mostly we rub along.

Your use of "grammar" indicates that you are not entirely happy with others' attitudes, but your final sentence nails it that YOU are not happy with immigrants.

I was talking to my friend at work today about recent events. He can see another side to it. He's from a fairly affluent yorkshire village.

He said there are people he knows who have done well for themselves in life. They're electricians or plumbers, many have their own businesses or on a decent wage. These men would be in their early 50s now as is my friend.

He said he wouldn't be surprised if these men he knows were rioting too and I asked why. He said because of how they were raised, their dads are of the generation were it acceptable to be casually racist and misogynistic. So even though the these people have done well for themselves in life and aren't struggling by any stretch, they have it so ingrained in them from birth to be racist/misogynistic from their fathers, their grandfather and their community ties.

I guess that stands to reason as even a lot of people who weren't the underclass voted for brexit.

But there is an element of this which does strike a chord and I say this as a mixed race person.

People are tribalistic to some degree. People tend to "choose a side" and entrench themselves in it.

It's human nature that if something is different to what we are used to seeing in our day to day lives we fear it if we don't understand it. I'm talking the collective "we" here. And thus prejudice is borne.

And no I'm not excusing racists, I'm actually pretty scared to go out atm in my home town and going to work every day is my relief from all this bat shittery.

But we can't deny human behaviour is a thing whether it's moral or not.

Please justify your phrase "mass immigration".

Percentage of vacation people in the U.K...

82%

You are completely ignoring that the riots were started by organised racists, paid to operate in this way.

I'm guessing you've not seen how freedom of movement benefitted people from mainland Europe and here. Especially when it comes to research.

Looks like the dickheads will be back in my town tomorrow night congregating outside the local immigration centre. Hopefully it'll be the damp squib that Saturdays planned "protest" was. Had enough of this scum taking over my town.

There was huge social unrest over migration from Afghanistan, Syria, etc., into Eastern Europe a few years ago, partly fuelled by the fact that Putin and Lukashenko had been practically bussing the migrants to the border precisely to foment trouble. These issues certainly aren't unique to the UK.

I think of the hypocrisy in quoting data around child poverty etc as a reason for white working class disenfranchisement when the tax payer is happy to have and pay taxes for the upkeep of a 'royal family' where is the equality in that!

These people live with incredible wealth and privilege, want for nothing and their children have access to the best schools etc

Why do the British tolerate this? Is it because the tiaras are o so sparkly that we are mesmerised and forget to question the fairness?

I know people will go on about the tourism that the family brings to the UK etc etc, yeah right! Guess that pays for all the security, staffing etc they use!

Immigration is an easy target! And just like in any organisation where there is inequality we need to challenge 'up' and not 'down', eg hold those in charge of our welfare to account rather than scrapping for the scraps with the less well off!

We don't NEED a royal family in addition to a government, funny how the royal family have been quiet on this issue for fear of anyone remembering that they themselves are incredibly privileged and may have some culpability in why some of our country's wealth has not been more evenly distributed

I have wondered why charles (or camilla if charles is too ill) hasn't issued a statement on this.

When the blm protests happened their was talk of abolishing the monarchy and some appetite for it. I guess they've not said anything about the riots cos "optics".

@Summerflames

Yes I'm sure there were positives as well.

Cross-institutional research for industry and education is a big one. Getting PhDs and post-docs from EU countries was a benefit to Britain.