British working/lower class only

[TinklySnail]

I’m personally not okay with rioting but understand why it’s happening.
What is the best way to fix this issue and do you think it is mass immigration that has caused it?

And do these young adults blame their mum? Or do they look at innocent strangers, or the government and blame them instead?

Anyone remember riots in Manchester and Bradford in about 2001/2002?

Civil unrest between white and Asian groups.

Lots of people were killed on both sides.

20 years on and little has been don’t to address the root cause of these problems.

Assigning blame is pointless. These people need solutions. What they see is solutions being provided for immigrants but not for themselves.

Nope I don’t but that’s a reason quoted by an apologist on one of these similar threads. Horrible mean labour government.

That's what they choose to see and they are not just focusing on "immigrants" as you say they are focused on Black and Brown people born here. Many of the people rioting are assigning blame and the only solution they propose is to get rid of immigrants

Thing is historically none of the solutions provided by the previous government have helped anyone, immigrant or Brit. Everything sold to us either hasn’t worked (Brexit) or was just empty promises (levelling up). I’m waiting to see what the new government will do.

Oh agreed. Right wing divisive politics never seems to deliver. Hence the Brexshit mess. Not sure who was killed though ?

And do they express this?

Do they engage with the job centre, do they ask and chase possibilities to find solutions?
Or are some, not all, totally blaming others and smashing things up?

This isn't about free bus passes to college.

So who or what are you really complaining about? Newly arrived asylum seekers (far from likely to be involved in civil unrest as they’re trying to keep their heads down and get their papers) or long established Muslim communities? If the latter, how does terrorising a few hundred people in a hotel address the issue that you really have a grievance with?

Strong agree but when affluent parts of the country vote for more of the same what can we do. Most well off folk in the south and rural heartlands voted Tory. They voted to cut benefits, for austerity, for more investment to be ploughed into the capital at the expense of the north or rather poor northern towns specifically. Many even voted to leave the EU which hit the north worse. I have middle aged relatives in Essex living the good life, never been impacted by immigrants and yet they voted to leave the EU and liked Farage.

I have middle aged relatives in Essex living the good life, never been impacted by immigrants and yet they voted to leave the EU and liked Farage.
Because they want it to stay that way. They can see what’s happening with immigration in other areas and they don’t want it to happen in their area. Stop it before it spreads here, etc. It’s perfectly logical why they voted the way they did.

I don't think it is entitled to want affordable secure housing.
Lots of people in low paid jobs will never be able to afford to buy. Private rentals are often expensive, poor quality and you have no stability.
Shop workers, nursery staff, care staff, etc shouldn't be excluded from having secure housing.

It's entitled to believe you deserve it more than others and you should be able to live next door to your family. You'll find people up and down the country without secure housing and they are not rioting and if they decided to protest I would guess they wouldn't ruin their community.

The trouble is that many middle class people also want secure housing, and many middle class people are earning no more than many working class people

These "class" descriptors are useless and used to create more divisions

Many people just don't see immigration as the root cause of the problem

Except it hasn't stayed that way.
The cheaper yet just as good trades have left in droves, so now it costs more if you can find a decent trade to get anything done.
The hospitals are having difficulty staffing nursing, porters. Care homes are screwed.

Because even wanted immigrants will think twice if they are fearful going to the cinema if they get told to "go home".

There are jobs about for the rioters but they won't do them because they are either for females or people lower than them.

Trying to brush under the carpet the fascist, racist reasons for these riots won't make any progress.

People want everything by doing very little. They don't like others having more than them.

Greed, laziness, envy.

And on top of that their points of view make them ugly inside and out and soul sappingly tedious.

Immigration is controlled, it might be higher than you'd like, but we don't literally have wide open borders.

If you mean the boat crossings, then that's down to the people who voted for Brexit and the idiotic way it was implemented.

Rising Inequality, lack of affordable housing, crumbling public services etc that's the fault of austerity economics and something people voted for, over and over again. It's got nothing to with immigration other than our need for it to stimulate the economy.

There are three main causes, rightwing populists in government and the media, neoliberal economics eating it's own tail and lots of stupid, gullible people acting against their own class interests.

It's nothing new, beyond the scale of the International funding of many of these groups and individuals & the impact of social media.

People have been warning about where we were heading for 20 years or more.

The question is, if many of us from working class towns and cities can see the issues that poverty brings and understand this is partially why we are where we are, why can't those in power?

Surely Angela Rayner understands this stuff more than most.

Yolo12345 · Yesterday 20:22
Everyone can see the spectacular waste of HS2 and Rwanda etc....everyone is sick and tired of it all”

Which is the fault of immigrants how, exactly?

It's not entitled to want secure, affordable housing or to want to live near friends and relatives. Due to lack of social housing, second homes, holiday homes, Air B&B and rocketing rent and house prices, people have to move away.

Many countries prioritise their citizens, for example foreigners can't buy land in Thailand. The Tories were talking about introducing legislation to prioritise locals for social housing.

There are many people who are in social housing who still teach their children the reason they haven't got "more" is brown people's fault.

Surely at that point even the people who continue to make excuses can see, at this point, it turns to racism?

Any legitimate concerns about levels of immigration have traditionally been put down as coming from poorly educated racists and bigots. This was certainly a thing in the former Labour government, as witness Gordon Brown’s encounter with a female voter.
And it’s still a thing, while any legitimate concerns are dismissed by those who will not be affected.

The increasing shortage of decent, affordable housing has been an issue for years now, and successive governments have done sod all about it - and Labour have been as guilty as anyone. They had 13 years in which to repeal ‘right to buy’ but they didn’t - presumably because they thought it would lose them votes. Nor did they introduce any legislation to ensure that council homes sold via RTB, should be replaced.

On top of that, Gordon Brown positively encouraged the mushrooming of buy to let, by abolishing mortgage interest relief for owner occupiers, while retaining it for landlords.
IMO Labour thought that a proliferation of private rental properties, would absolve them from having to bother about the provision of social housing.

And of course, the Tories chose to do nothing about affordable housing either - except for ‘Help to Buy’ - whose only major effect, as far as I can see, was to boost the profits of builders, and whack up the builder CEOs’ bonuses.
So, no surprise there!

Immigration is not uncontrolled.

There is no party for the working class anymore hence the Brexit vote. People feel disenfranchised and powerless. The North has suffered from lack of investment for decades, this comes up time and again, in fact it was meant to be specifically addressed with levelling up, but that never happened.

And they are about to feel the affects with the green belt at risk and Labours manifesto promise to distribute refugees to all areas of the UK equally.

This has been a truly illuminating thread for me, although quite disheartening. So many good points from different perspectives. I hope the government/SPADs have a deep awareness of the issues at hand.