Why are majority of the riots in northern towns?

[PhoebeMcPeePee]

DH & I were watching the riots on the news this morning like most people absolutely horrified.

He's from one of the northern towns affected although we live in the south and started discussing why these riots now (and historically) tend to be more focused on northern towns but didn't really come up with any one thing. Any thoughts on this?

Just fed up because the criticia for accessing who needs help seems to be based on identity not economic need and social deprivation

@RedToothBrush, what is your evidence for this claim? Thanks.

Poverty, ignorance and boredom.

That does seem a shitty thing to say and not right.

I've never claimed benefits in my life but I do think that benefit allocation is based on need, not race.

Good post.
More money per head is spent on Londoners than the rest of the country - apparently more tax is paid in London but maybe, just maybe having a better infrastructure and transport is the reason - there’s nothing spent on anything here where I live.

Err. That is my own experience. My experience was that many people in the place I lived were prone to narrow mindedness and group think.
Given your own deep understanding of ‘The North’ - you’ll know it’s not one place. Lovely for you if you live in a nice area with nice, open minded people - however there are a lot of places where that isn’t the case. That’s true for other parts of the UK too, of course. This ignorance can be driven by poverty and disadvantage but people do have some personal responsibility, too, to learn about the rest of the world.

The current government's housebuilding plans seem to be heavily weighted toward building in northern towns where demand for housing is actually less than in the Southeast. Something I am concerned about is that this could, long-term, increase the tendency to "dump" asylum seekers and welfare claimants in these areas. I get that there is the demand to rebalance the UK, but we need to be careful here.

As a mixed race woman, the most racial abuse I've ever received is from Asian Muslim women is in Tower Hamlets.

There is most spent in London per head, partially because things are more expensive there, and partially that the London transport is expensive.

However the South East has one of the lowest spends per head, with only East Midlands getting less.
The north east gets the highest English region amount per head, followed by North West.

Not really. I grew up in one, people mostly stayed in their own 'community' and mostly there were only two cultures.

@CheatingMenz It’s not just London/SE. My house is also Band F in the NW, because it’s in a nice part of the city. It’s just a normal 4 bed house. Our last home in a crap town was 8 beds and absolutely beautiful, but was Band D. My council tax this year is £4,033. In the second most deprived LA in the country.

@CheatingMenz It’s not just London/SE. My house is also Band F in the NW, because it’s in a nice part of the city. It’s just a normal 4 bed house. Our last home in a crap town was 8 beds and absolutely beautiful, but was Band D. My council tax this year is £4,033. In the second most deprived LA in the country.

Wow!

I know. That poster (whomever they were) lost it a bit there. My posts were about not making stereotypical judgements about Northeners, I said n'owt about anything else!

That’s an opinion, but it’s laughable that £500k buys you a mansion in the whole of ‘the north’. In my northern area it would buy a 3 bed 1930s semi. The north is a big place! I grew up on a council estate in an ex-shipbuilding town where 15% of 16-25 year olds were addicted to heroin and we had metal grilles over the windows of our homes. It was hell on earth. It would be a joke to try and argue that the quality of life of those people is better than the South. Now I live less than 10 miles away, in one of the most affluent villages of the North West.

The North has some beautiful places but we also need to acknowledge that it also has its share of post-industrial shitholes, and everything in between. I believe that wealth inequality a big cause of the problem.

AvrielFinch
The most racist place I have ever lived was in Stratford in the nineties. Horrific.

As a mixed race woman, the most racial abuse I've ever received is from Asian Muslim women is in Tower Hamlets.

@AvrielFinch @Marchitectmummy have you lived up north?

It is laughable. 500k in my part of the NW buys you a terraced cottage.

It's also true that one of the most deprived areas in the UK are the Medway towns of Kent.

It's almost as though the whole of the UK isn't an homogeneous mass of stereotypes.

Our new government needs to focus on processing the ridiculous backlog of asylum applications.

This has been an issue for decades.
People feeling persecution have every right to claim asylum here under international law.

The fucking ignorant idiots rioting need to be educated.

It should be illegal to incite racial hatred as Farage and his sort do.

I notice he's not said much about the current state of affairs.

Actually he has condemned the current riots. But it’s no god just condemning people. There are some very real, legitimate concerns about British life.

I think the videos we’re seeing on the news really indicates the problem. Those who are stood in front of hotels to protect them from the “nasty racist thugs” look like they’re queuing for Wimbledon tickets. Clearly not affected by immigration. We need to start focusing on the very real concerns and frustrations people have. One of the very first things we need to stop using phrases like “white privilege” “”male privilege”. Arguing over the nuance of what these phrases mean is pointless, they are inflammatory.

A few weeks ago, there were videos from leads of large numbers of Muslims surrounding police vehicles attacking them. Setting fires etc -where is the police crackdown on these people - how many of those violent thugs have been fast tracked through the criminal justice system. We all know the answer to this in none. Because we know the police won’t want to inflame the community. This is a massive problem. People see this kind of inequality, where certain communities seem almost immune from the law.

One thing I hope comes out of this is the hate for police which is constantly fuelled on here by many of those who are now expecting those same police to stand on their side, again putting their lives and safety at risk, maybe those people will stop and think before they slag off the police.

That's true. Condemnation is easy. Understanding the root of actions like this is a thorny matter that has no simple answers. The photos of youths on both sides of these riots show that thuggery and male violence is a huge problem. Shaking one's fists at the sky and shouting 'down with this sort of thing' is easy but ultimately entrenches the problem.

Exactly. Northerners are just as guilty of believing that Southerners all have huge wages but live in houses that cost a fortune, as much as southerners think northerners all live in £100k homes and eat beige food every day.

Both my DSs rented studio flats, one in Brighton and one in Manchester City centre. The rent was higher on the Manchester flat, even though Brighton rents are considered higher than anywhere outside of London. We need to lose the idea that North = cheap and poor, and South = expensive and rich.

Then the law needs to change.

We do not have the infrastructure or the social cohesion to house every 'persecuted' person that reaches the UK. And as everyone and his dog can claim persecution most stay. All that will happen is that EVERYONES quality if life will continue to sink.

You don't need to make your own country a shithole through guilt that other countries are shit holes.

It only worked when it was very difficult for people from poorer countries to reach here. Now they are being shipped in by smugglers the numbers are unfeasible.

The law is no longer fit for purpose.

It's to do with diversity quotas.

Trevor Phillips (former chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission) did a programme for the BBC exploring their own recruitment process and diversity and how it was affecting the country and BBC output.

He's a black man btw.

What he found was efforts to diversify the workforce were not as great as many thought.

What was happening was essentially white males from working class backgrounds were being squeezed out particularly hard. White males from private school educations were still being over represented.

When it came to race, there was better representation BUT they came from much more affluent family backgrounds.

So the net effect was those creating content for the BBC have been coming from a narrowing socio-economic background because there's been such an emphasis on recruitment in this way and much less thought given to recruitment from poor white backgrounds.

It's a group that's been overlooked in diversity drives because the emphasis has been on race and religion and not on class and socioeconomics.

Because of the nature of the BBC as an institution involved in news making and decision making in terms of what is an important story, it's a crucial part of why we've got an issue with 'left behind' communities because of a lack of understanding of these communities and what they are facing. This lack of representation on TV has impact on politics and feelings of disenfranchisement.

This problem in recruitment isn't restricted to the BBC either.

We live at a time of the lowest socioeconomic mobility since before WWII so for this area to be so overlooked when trying to increase diversity and representation in public life it's actually outrageous. We should be asking questions about this.

What's fascinating during this thread has been prejudices towards the north that have shown up. And prejudices about a lack of education. Having a strong regional accent can affect your chances of getting a job too.

Now I don't for one second justify anything that's happening, but this thread was a wider discussion about what conditions lead to thugs doing things like this. The answer is poverty and lack of opportunity and a sense of having nothing to lose and there being no way out. This is connected to shrinking socioeconomic mobility. This is something we should tackle and be aware of.

I did not say what I did lightly and without context.

In Manchester £500k would buy you a terrace and that's about it in a good area.

Small three bed semis in not the best areas will set you back £350k.

No mansions.

Actually, no, you need to listen to experiences of people who have been in positions like mine.experiences of living in areas, largely middle class, once very welcoming of different races , I was too. Then seeing that community decimated by people who had no interest in integrating into the established community. This is causing a massive problem - it’s breeding resentment- I have no interest in living in an area where people see their community destroyed. Forced out. People need to start listening to real experiences.

Imagine your ancestors prancing around in doublet and hose! I only went back to Queen Elizabeth 1 on my late husband's side and fell about laughing at the imagined spectacle.