Why are majority of the riots in northern towns?

[PhoebeMcPeePee]

DH & I were watching the riots on the news this morning like most people absolutely horrified.

He's from one of the northern towns affected although we live in the south and started discussing why these riots now (and historically) tend to be more focused on northern towns but didn't really come up with any one thing. Any thoughts on this?

Poverty, deprivation, lack of social mobility and lack of diversity

Some really interesting points here.

I was born and raised in Yorkshire and moved to London as an adult. Most of my extended family (parents/siblings) remain in Yorkshire.

As ethnic minorities (my parents were migrants) I grew up thinking living with racism and fear was the norm. When I moved away I realised it wasn’t the norm everywhere.

I’ve never quite worked out why. London has very high levels of child poverty, some of the highest in the country (in part driven by housing costs). It also has a very high level of asylum seekers/refugees. Some areas have high levels of unemployment, particularly among 18-25 year olds. It isn’t one big booming success story.

What is different is there simply isn’t the space for segregation on the level seen in other parts of the country. Most areas are diverse - both ethnically and in terms of wealth - because house prices drive this. Most areas still have very mixed housing stock so 1950s blocks of flats can be on the same street as £1.2m houses,

People travel to work together on public transport. There’s little choice to do otherwise.
Most people send their kids to state schools with a very mixed demographic. Most people have little choice over schools as the catchments are so small.

Dd has had a very different experience to her cousins who lived in their nice village, went to their nice local village school and were driven everywhere by car. It’s only as older teens that they’ve ventured into bigger towns and cities independently.
I worry about how much dd is exposed to sometimes but equally it has made her less likely to view people different from her as ‘other’.

I’ll probably be flamed. DH is from the North East. He’s lived down South for the last 25 years.

We live near Brighton in the area where I grew up. I was astounded and completely taken aback with SIL and her ex/husbands attitude towards LGBT. It was like hearing an echo from 100 years before. SIL told me not to talk about a LGBT family (my family) wedding in front of her 10 year old as she didn’t want her hearing about it as she’s not told her about things “like that.”My 5 year old was just like oh yeah Aunty T and Aunty S are getting married.

I think in some parts they are very traditional and it’s handed down from generation to generation and they’re not very open minded about things.

Yes everyone is entitled to vote for which ever party they want to, but please to remember this is why so many people are incensed by the hard right/nazi rioters. Nazis are anti democratic, they don't listen to other points of view and they hold extreme views which are very dangerous for women, any one who isn't white, people who follow a variety of religions, children, sick people of all types and ages, people who aren't married, people who have different sexual identities to the Nazis own. And of course people who believe in freedom and fairness.
However I'm old enough to recall the outcome of the 2011 riots, a lot of people went to prison. I'm a Londoner and vividly remember reading about the court cases a long time afterwards. And now the police have even more sources of evidence.

And agree with the point re they feel ignored by Government. They were very vocal over Grenfall and said if that had been a tower block in Newcastle the coverage would have been minimal.

We have gay people in the Northeast, too, you know.

I’m in Scotland, and although we have a similar demographic to the north of England, we don’t seem to be seeing the same issues with riots at the moment.

is Scotland just a bit more left wing? A bit more tolerant? Or just a bit colder?

I'm from one of these northern towns and anyone who comments on people voting Reform as being stupid, uneducated, uncultured etc can fuck right off.

The area was decimated in the 80s and much of it hasn't ever really recovered. We've been ignored and lied to by governments, mostly Tory. Little infrastructure investment. Poor transport, reduced public services. Many very poor areas. Lack of good jobs, low wages. I could go on and on.

I don't condone violence, but I can see how discontent takes hold.

DFOD

Different populations, histories and situations affecting integration and resources.

Northern areas brought in Bangladeshi's to work in the textile industries. These were low skilled, had few resources and some of those communities seem very poorly integrated. I've taught classes where there are even numbers of whites and pupils of Asian heritage. They seem really separate, different accents, group apart. The industries have collapsed, life is tough in areas away from goid transport links and wealth.

Places like Leicestershire had lots of Gujurati Indians, who were offered asylum from the Idi Amin regime in Uganda. They are business people, cosmopolitan, in many cases had wealth to start businesses and buy property so had a good start. They seem far more integrated via business, socialisation and attitude.

Look at ONS statistics for work, benefits, single family status, crime etc. There are differences between all groups that are going to affect integration, wealth and experiences of the community.

Not sure what happened in the end yesterday but there was a list going round in the last few days of places where it was likely to kick off, which included Weymouth and Portsmouth. I believe Bristol, Westminster and Aldershot have also had issues, so I don't think it's exclusively a Northern issue

I can't believe what I'm reading.

My theory is - more poverty and generally less wealth and jobs - so the far right probably feel they can target these areas more for ‘recruits’ as people more dissatisfied…also worse public services so people can ‘blame’ others for this. Also, more segregation - poster upthread had a very good point that more room in the North than London so communities are able to live apart more. In my DC primary school there are a couple of black children in the whole school! They mingle with more POC and general non white people at my church and i am glad we go there ☺️. Of course, in a ‘naice’ village in the Home Counties there wouldn’t be many POC but because these people are wealthy they probably wouldn’t go out on the streets (‘aybe just be quietly racist behind closed doors ime)

I have the opposite experience (lived in born, raised and lived in London until late 30s and now in Yorkshire) and I agree.

Northern cities might be diverse but there's also a lot more separation of communities compared with London.

I use public transport a lot here but I'm often the only working age white woman on the bus.

I understood this as a reason for people voting Brexit (when I’m feeling generous) but we’ve just had an election that gave people a voice and has the potential to bring about positive change for those experiencing poverty. The new government haven’t had the opportunity to ignore people yet. These people are racist thugs who are probably missing the football season.

I grew up in a Lancashire former mill town which has a large Muslim population. I left at 18 in 2000 and have not lived in the north since. The different communities were and still are completely segregated, there is very little integration and almost completely seperate schools. There is racism on both sides- I was called a stupid fucking white bitch more than once by complete strangers. There are also huge amounts of poverty, a feeling of being ignored by government and very little prospect of a better life for many. Add to that issues with grooming gangs and the many working class struggling to make ends meet whilst perceiving that those arriving in the UK are handed housing, benefits etc and sadly you can start to see why these areas are fertile for exploitation by the far right.

The protesters are being bussed in!

We are from the NE (we don't live in the UK anymore) and all of our friends are watching with bated breath to see the response from the locals to next weeks scheduled protest in Newcastle. There is a friendly on that weekend and town will be packed. I can't see it going down well at all.

And look at how the community came out in Sunderland to clean up and condemn the violence. I haven't heard a single person agree with these balaclava wearing muppets. I genuinely miss the spirit of the NE. People are the best. Kind, caring, thoughtful.

There is a political disconnect, there does need to be a leveling up that was promised and never delivered. Politicians do need to remember that the north doesn't stop at Manchester. I will absolutely agree with PP on that.

From what I can see, the majority of the EDL's informal meets and talks happen down south.

And as for @jugglesandspins basing her entire opinion on her SIL not wanting to expose her child to gay weddings... DFOD. Your head needs a serious wobble. Bloody southerner.

Both my partner and I are scousers but no longer live in Liverpool, (we live about 15 min drive away from it) and he attended the counter protests to the riots.
He saw young women being attacked by men, he had to get 3 men off one woman at one point. When he returned home he was genuinely shaken.

The riots have been simmering for many years we believe.
It's a mixture of racism, hatred, poverty and disenfranchisement.

Many of the "kids" (now mid 30s) who dp and I retrospectively went to school with are very vocal on SM and have been sharing some horrific and scary racist bollocks. They've been gleeful at the burning down of a library. The same library that was also a community hub and the same library both at points in our lives myself and DP visited as children ourselves. I couldn't read well for many years and I remember the librarian helping me find books for my reading age but didn't make me feel stupid. Seeing thugs cheering that such integral parts of the community are now gone, is heartbreaking. If you're someone who thinks burning a library to the floor is progress, then you're someone who needed a library more than most.

The thugs who rioted don't have the intellectual ability to understand why they're living in poverty, to understand that refugees and migrants aren't responsible for their lives being shite.
There is a huge problem with alcohol and drugs, mostly weed and cocaine.
They have to wear expensive brands to look a certain part but don't have the money some days to eat, but they don't want people knowing that.
They're from generational poverty, often raised by people with very low IQ and addictions and have witnessed excessive levels of domestic violence and violence generally in their lives.

Poverty and crime and lack of education and the likes of tommy/farage scapegoating Muslims and fear mongering in the media have led to this.

We didn't see a rise against white men when that deplorable little bastard murdered a mother and her 2 daughters with a cross bow.
It is easier for these people to look at people of colour to blame them for their problems.
I do appreciate the nuances of poverty, low iq, large groups of angry people and I am from the very communities people feel this way.

But they aren't to be excused, they need re-education, rehabilitation and failing any progress locking away as they're a danger to the public. Especially people of colour.

Muslims aren't the reason these people have crap lives and have no experiences outside of substances and being violent and hate filled and they sure as hell should not be the ones dealing with this but they're not intelligent enough or are too hate filled to get that.

Sending love to the Muslims and poc affected. Angry thugs coasting life on hatred and cocaine aren't the majority.
I'm so sorry people of my community have done this to yours and I'll be dropping in to mosques locally to send love and offer support in anyway I can, I'm so ashamed/disgusted right now of the behaviour of people locally.

The "riot map" I saw showed plenty of places in the south of English.

On a population-based level, it's possible there are more riots in the north. Mainly, the north is just a lot poorer than the south, and the gap seems to be getting bigger rather than smaller.

Poverty leading to them wanting someone to blame for their crap lives. People who aren't from the North don't understand what the combination of poverty and a lack of career options can do to an area. This is the perfect example of what can happen.

Poverty and lack of education.
I live in The North and there has always been low level racism in certain communities but I have never seen anything like this.
I also blame Brexit as it seems to have made racism more acceptable and mainstream.
Plus certain outside agents such as Russia are stoking it too

Where do the organisers come from? All reports seem to suggest that they travel to carry out the violence. Are the organisers wealthy? I saw some England chanting boozed up old white blokes coming into London for the remembrance parade last year. They definitely weren’t poor. I know you can’t really look poor, but a lot of the recent photos are of middle aged/older white men who for some reason I can’t put my finger on, I can’t see them struggling on benefits. I could be wrong, but I imagine they have quite nice cars and houses. I think some people just like to have a fight, and I guess there is more at stake for some people if they get caught causing trouble. I don’t think it’s a northern thing though, but I agree with other PPs that in London there is more integration generally between different groups.

Yes lots of Muslin communities. We are all cut from the same cloth.

Can you see how such a them and us gap opens up with this sort of language? Blaming southerners isn’t kind caring and thoughtful, it just helps to create division.

It is what they spout that is problematic though.