Human beings weren’t designed to be independent so why are we forced to be?

[Buttercupsandpoppys]

I always prided myself on being independent. From 18 I went to uni, got a job, bought a house on my own etc. Being so independent has always been important to me and is seen as such a virtue in society.

Yet now I’ve had 2 kids and a DP I’ve come to realise that actually humans are meant to be dependant on eachother. I’ve been very blessed with lots of friends/family and I’ve relied on them so much over these past 2 years since my first was born.

I’ve also had a realisation on what a breakdown in society we have. Due to encouraging independence we’ve also shamed people for being dependent (disabled, elderly etc).

But humans are not made to be independent. We NEED others. If we have illness we need someone medical to treat us. If we have a child we need someone to either physically look after them whilst we work or to provide so we don’t have to work and can physically look after them.
We need shelter so we need someone to employ us or if self employed then to use our service.

Humans literally need other humans. But it’s drummed into us to never be dependent.

I’m currently on mat leave with my second baby and the amount of struggling mothers I’ve met at playgroups that don’t have any support outside of their DP is so sad.
Even the ones who have local friends wouldn’t ever ring a friend and ask for help unless it was a dire emergency because otherwise they worry they’d be seen as cheeky or struggling. Yet it’s entirely normal to need help because humans were made to live in communities and rely on eachother. It’s literally in our DNA to live in packs for the very reason of helping eachother. But it’s actively discouraged to be dependant in anyway shape or form.

I wondered why this is, and I think maybe capitalism? The less of a community there is and shame in asking for help, then the more insular people become yet because we need humans we now have to pay to have that need met(whilst thinking we’re independent yet still depending on others).

Does anyone else know why independence is so massively encouraged and dependency of any kind so shameful nowadays?

I actually get irritated at mothers who want all this support from people, but have zero history of supporting elderly or disabled people who need support who are family, friends or neighbours. Lots of people have to pay for every tiny bit of support they get, and they need lots of support all of the time.

The article liked by a couple of PP is amazing to read. It’s how I’ve always experienced families and communities, put beautifully into words. I’ve always felt like the only person who can see it.

ETA link again. What We Talk About When We Talk About "The Village"What We Talk About When We Talk About "The Village"

That is a great article - particularly this bit:

”There is no cultural framework where help flows toward working parents but not from them. Where we are beholden to no one but entitled to support. Where we only have to associate with people we choose to at our leisure. Where there’s always someone to pick up slack for us and manage whatever we find unmanageable.
That’s not a village, it’s a wife.”

I’ve often thought my life would be a lot easier if I had a housewife (I am woman). The 1950s sound amazing if you were male.

Totally agree. Which is why mothers with young children who have a history of reciprocal relationship for support, will still get some support when their child is born. No one springs to your aid if you never help anyone else out, except in tragic circumstances.

nope, there are loads of us, especially I think those of us who experienced the crab bucket

yup but that's MN not reality

Every Woman Needs a Wife.

It's not that simple though. I always helped others, but still when I had a tragedy nobody was there for me.

I despair for humanity with so many posters trying to argue that having a community, family, friends, neighbours etc who all help each other out on occasion is a bad thing. I hope you instill a bit more positivity into your children. We can teach it's dog eat dog or we can teach do unto others. And yes, sometimes people are shit, because that's life, but it's not most people. This thread is so depressing and it's no wonder the country it turning to shit.

Good night to you all.

People keep asking what I’m doing to help others. The list is extensive and I’ve previously touched on it.

i also read the article posted several times about the ‘village’. A lot of sentiments are very true, especially about women assisting family from cradle to grave.

However I’m not at all saying that people (women in particular) should be doing unlimited free childcare for all and sundry, moving in elderly relatives and taking in neighbours laundry! No way.
The type of reciprocal modern support I’m talking about does take effort yes, but is needed in order to live healthily.

An example of this is, my neighbour informally watches my baby whilst I drop off my toddler to nursery one afternoon a week. This is for around 15/20 minutes max once a week. She literally pops in and I go drop off toddler and come straight home. It saves me the hassle of waking up baby and carrying both to the car etc. Or I’ll literally pass baby to her over the garden fence.

When my neighbour was sick with flu that wiped her out a couple of weeks ago we did her weekly food shop for her. When DP did our food shop he also took her full weekly shop list.
So it took him an extra 25 minutes or so finding the stuff she has and us both a little extra time taking double the bags out the car whilst wrangling a baby and toddler and taking it over. But really? No problem.

Another example (not me). My mums disabled neighbour mobility scooter broke down whilst they were out. She rang my mum so she went and got her as my mum has a van. My mum also washed and ironed her neighbours childrens school uniform for two weeks when their washing machine broke. Yes it added a little time on top of her washing but no big deal. These neighbours always take in her parcels and watch the house when she’s on holiday.

So the village mentality doesn’t have to be some huge sacrifice. It’s small things that actually make a huge difference to someone. It requires a little effort now and again but in all honesty you usually feel good for helping someone out anyway.

I think the thing the article was missing was that yes someone who’s had an accident or recently bereaved may need your help and you may be busy with a million other things with work, partner, kids etc. but actually if there is a whole community, then it’s not a big weight on you to help. You may have to sacrifice an hour to drop in on someone during your entire week. But the other days other people are doing the same. That 1 hour sacrificed by everyone builds up. That person feels surrounded by care. That person now feels hugely supported during their low time and their mental health does so well because of it. And all it took was for a collection of people sacrificing just a one off 1 hour of their time.

Society has broken down that much that for a lot of people being expected to pop in on a bereaved/sick/depressed person once for an hour with a kind word seems like being asked to provide 24/7 slavery. It actually angers/annoys a lot of people ‘I have my own problems’ ‘I have my own little family’ ‘I have my own life’.

It’s not normal and it’s not how we’re meant to be.

OP it's precisely because society has broken down and people are so selfish that I've removed myself from "the village". It was the only way to even things up and not feel run ragged.

All I can say is I wish I had someone like you in my life, @Buttercupsandpoppys - and I wish I could be like you but just too burned by bad experiences.

@Buttercupsandpoppys “It actually angers/annoys a lot of people ‘I have my own problems’ ‘I have my own little family’ ‘I have my own life’.”

I think this is how I have ended up completely isolated. I got told off by one friend who said “you can’t expect help from people with children, it’s not fair to ask”. Her DD is 15. This was her response to me having a nervous breakdown over caring for my mum.

I have another thread going around this topic but yours seems very linked. It’s this type of attitude that leads me to think “don’t you dare turn up at my funeral when I’ve decided to exit due to isolation”.

I now feel a total fool for being so helpful to friends in the past. I still help in the community but am limited as I can no longer drive after a spinal injury.

I do agree that selfishness and the lack of village drives people to be more selfish though. So we have a vicious circle.

Presumably the “my little family” mentality will lead to children being taught not to help. My parents taught me to help. I presume that’s gone now.

I too wish for someone like OP in my life!

@EmeraldRoulette I was brought up to contribute helpfully to people in my life. To give what you can. I still help. I think people are out there, but harder to find now.
Vicious circle like you said.
Helping needn't be in a martyr way, flogging yourself on the alter of someone else's needs. But if everyone gives a little bit of what they can it goes a long way. Even if it's just the sense of not walking alone.

@UpThereForThinkingDownThereForDancing yes I agree

but no one wants to give that one hour now.

i never felt like a martyr. I thought I had friends and we were helping each other. Apparently not. (The elderly I helped - of course they are gone now and of course I never expected anything in return!)

I wonder what will happen to those “my little family” types when their kids are grown and gone.

So well said @Buttercupsandpoppys 👌

I drove a 3 hour round trip to help my friend write a letter she needed to do, to try to salvage a family relationship, that took one evening.

Walked the dogs for a neighbour who had to be somewhere for the day and couldn't take the dogs. Which was good exercise and got me out of the house on a nice day.

Did a shop run for a neighbour who was snowed in but I had parked my car on a gritted road so could get through, then bags on a sledge to their house 🤣.

Stuff like that. All nice things, nothing earth shaking or time expensive and for people who would do the same.

Simple human connection.

@EmeraldRoulette @Runsyd @Amazinggrace842 thank you for your kind words and please don’t doubt yourself or put yourselves down if you ever feel unable to give support.

It’s honestly no individual persons fault that things are the way they are. It is a viscous circle. Because you receive no support you juggle everything to burn out. From the minute you open your eyes until you go to bed you have the mental weight of the world on your mind. Work, relationships, housework, illness, relatives, cooking, finances, shopping, appointments, kids, pets, admin and the damn cooker has just stopped working again. There is no relief.
If there is no person to take off one of your many jobs or assist you in logistically making something run smoothly then you feel on the edge of a nervous break!

So when Ethel next door needs someone to pick up her prescription you feel like telling Ethel to F off! Can’t she see I’m holding on by a thread here?!

And this is what the breakdown in society has come too.

The way it has been set up means our needs don’t get met unless we literally pull out our bank credits and buy it in. Humans are dependant. Our strive for complete control and independence comes to our on detriment as it goes against our own state of being.

It’s honestly so saddening and this way of being is getting worse.

By pushing the idea that the nuclear family is some how a bad thing? Encouraging women to be without men (see nonsense like women need men like a fish needs a bicycle). Pushing women towards divorce?

Really sorry to hear that. 💐💐

I honestly think I would rather take full responsibility for myself and my DD and not get too involved in helping others either. It just feels easier that way.

So you wouldn’t want financial support from dad?

There's probably a spiral element to this. I've given up on people with the my little family mindset and misanthropes but because more and more people are like that its isolating. When you feel isolated you're more likely to turn into those groups and perpetuate the lonely cycle.

I also agree with a PP that reciprocal relationships are what make us human. It's like the need for exercise, some enjoy it a lot more than others but everyone needs some to stay healthy.

I sympathise with this. When we moved to a village I worked flat out at helping others. I was on every 'help other people' rota going. It took me ages to realise I needed help too. I had an SEN baby, a very active toddler, elderly parents 90 mins away who expected me to be on call for them. No one ever baked me a casserole or came and tidied my home when we had flu. They just scowled if I ever said no to cooking 30 dinners for church (at my own expense) because their job was to ring around and find the mug who would.

I love OP's notion of the mutually supportive village. But there are a lot of takers in the world.

Humans weren't "designed".