Human beings weren’t designed to be independent so why are we forced to be?

[Buttercupsandpoppys]

I always prided myself on being independent. From 18 I went to uni, got a job, bought a house on my own etc. Being so independent has always been important to me and is seen as such a virtue in society.

Yet now I’ve had 2 kids and a DP I’ve come to realise that actually humans are meant to be dependant on eachother. I’ve been very blessed with lots of friends/family and I’ve relied on them so much over these past 2 years since my first was born.

I’ve also had a realisation on what a breakdown in society we have. Due to encouraging independence we’ve also shamed people for being dependent (disabled, elderly etc).

But humans are not made to be independent. We NEED others. If we have illness we need someone medical to treat us. If we have a child we need someone to either physically look after them whilst we work or to provide so we don’t have to work and can physically look after them.
We need shelter so we need someone to employ us or if self employed then to use our service.

Humans literally need other humans. But it’s drummed into us to never be dependent.

I’m currently on mat leave with my second baby and the amount of struggling mothers I’ve met at playgroups that don’t have any support outside of their DP is so sad.
Even the ones who have local friends wouldn’t ever ring a friend and ask for help unless it was a dire emergency because otherwise they worry they’d be seen as cheeky or struggling. Yet it’s entirely normal to need help because humans were made to live in communities and rely on eachother. It’s literally in our DNA to live in packs for the very reason of helping eachother. But it’s actively discouraged to be dependant in anyway shape or form.

I wondered why this is, and I think maybe capitalism? The less of a community there is and shame in asking for help, then the more insular people become yet because we need humans we now have to pay to have that need met(whilst thinking we’re independent yet still depending on others).

Does anyone else know why independence is so massively encouraged and dependency of any kind so shameful nowadays?

None of us live independently. We have DPs, teachers, bin men, etc.
But it is an interesting topic. It is true that working class communities were destroyed. The last of them in the eighties when the last traditional industries closed down leading to mass unemployment in some towns. People were told to move away for work, and many did, My own parents did, and as a result U rarely saw extended family.

But the issue of helping friends is a more thorny issue. I have had friendships where people really do help each other out, but they are rare. What most people want is someone to have fun times with and get a little bit of support by confiding if they have had a tough day. But anything else gets labelled as intense or needy. I see it on here all the time if someone posts about a friend they have met who is obviously looking for a friendship where they do help each other out.

The tough reality is that it has to be reciprocal. Not in that moment where you are at home with a tint baby, but you have to have a history of helping each other out. Giving people lifts, helping look after their cat when they are on holiday, doing a shop for them when they are ill. If this is the way you and your friends operate anyway, then of course they will be there when you have a baby. But you can't operate not helping anyone else out, and then when you need help lament no one helping you.

I think you have to have a strong unit of extended nearby family to raise a child.

This is much more prevalent in religious cultures where children stay at home.

Non-religious cultures encourage children to go off and explore the World and forge great careers.

Well no, that's extreme unless you were ill or injured. But it would be quite a different experience to have friends and family mill around helping so you could fully relax and just enjoy the first month or so. I had my baby in lockdown and I coped, but it would've been so different to not have been in that situation. Humans are meant to be communal creatures, it's innate. It's definitely an interesting topic. I'd say day to day life of most people is very unnatural now.

Yes, I agree, codependance is necessary for humans. We are social creatures and evolved to need eachother. The amount of support will change through our lives- as children we need our 'tribe' to take care of us, as healthy adults we provide for our children and older members, as older people we give wisdom even if we can no longer do the same amount of tasks and perhaps help care for the children and we all take care of our sick and injured. It is very unusual for us to be expected to be entirely independent for our whole lives.

This one of the reasons I dislike our society not taking care of our young children and their parents because they 'chose' to have them. Those young babies will be running the country when we can no longer work to support ourselves, so we need to make sure they have the best start and education now.

Women used to stay in bed for a month to try and prevent death. There is some slight evidence that resting can reduce post birth bleeding. Post birth haemorrhage was a common cause of maternal death. People saw that lying in bed reduced post birth bleeding and thought this would reduce the risk of mortality. It was to stay alive, not simply to have an easy time.

Maggie Thatcher: "There's no such thing as society." The shift from caring for each other to looking out only for oneself was one I was so aware of in 1980s. Yes, capitalism plays a part. And OP I agree, dependency can be a lovely thing.
If we live in a society of a thousand people all looking out for each other, then when things go wrong, you have 1000 people looking out for you.If we live in a dog eat dog everyone for themselves society then when things go wrong, not only is no one else looking out for you, they have sharp elbows to keep you down so they have get ahead. It's ugly and bad social planning.

And the truth is time and time again mothers on here say they would not look after elderly parents. It is a two way street.

There is nothing wrong with dependency, but at the same time there is also nothing wrong with people who choose to live totally independently of others. They are not responsible for the "breakdown of society". There is nothing about living with next to no interaction with other people that mandates you somehow have to be rude, indifferent, hostile, or unhelpful when you do actually interact with anyone.

I live alone, have no contact with any immediate family because my life is more pleasant without their involvement. I don't have a large social circle because I do not crave company. The only people who have ever set foot in my home are myself, my partner (who does not live here), and the Gas safety Engineer. I've been here years, and I see no reason to expand that group of visitors.

My choice to live like this. I keep myself to myself, pull my weight in communal areas, and do not indulge in anti-social behaviours that disturb my neighbours. Please explain how I am contributing to the "breakdown of society" ?.

@littleteapot86 it’s so sad isn’t it.

When I had both babies I had c-sections and my mum stayed with us after DP went back to work. Drove me to all appointments as I couldn’t drive and taught me so much about caring for a newborn.
My MIL came over several times a week and cleaned/cooked. My two friends (ones a GP and the other a nurse). Also came over to check my wound when I was worried it was becoming infected and couldn’t get an appointment until the next day.

During maternity leave my FIL came over to decorate my kitchen and my DP and his mates who are tradesmen did up the nursery.

My own friends visited regularly after work to check in.

My neighbour took my bins in for me and trimmed my front hedges when DP had to go away for work.

Then I went to baby groups and came into countless women who were entirely alone. Like literally nothing. They had a week of visitors coming to cuddle their babies and after that come 8am Monday when their DPs went back to work, they were left entirely.

Parents and in-laws either couldn’t or didn’t want to help. No helpful neighbours and despite having friends had no practical support and wouldn’t dream of asking. A lot suffered loneliness and depression. Even the few that didn’t get depressed had such hard times that could’ve been made 10x easier with just a bit of support.

It really opened my eyes and sent me on a mission to help others where I can and pay it forward. It’s not meant to be this way.

@Buttercupsandpoppys when my mother had me she was a single mum at a time when that was still shocking. Babies of single mums were still regularly adopted. She kept me and literally had no one to help. It was just her and me.
I have never had the family support you outline. Never.

@AvrielFinch i agree it must be reciprocated. It is a two way street.

Prior to my first baby I was ALWAYS popping out seeing people. I’d pop in to a colleagues house who was off sick on my way home from work for a cuppa or go and water my friends flowers when they were away. I’d never ever cancel on anyone if I made plans. Even if on the day I was dying to stay at home and hibernate with Netflix and snacks. It would drive my DP crazy and he wouldn’t understand why I wouldn’t just cancel on people if I didn’t want too or drive across in the opposite direction after work to just pop in on someone for half an hour.

I am not an extrovert per se, I’m actually very frigging lazy by default but I am sociable and do really care about people I know even if not particularly close to them.

Ive found that actually, when you put in the effort and show genuine care, most people are really happy and appreciative of it. Super shy introverts are actually glad you made the effort to check if they were okay and more than happy to go for a walk and quick coffee. The stand-offish person in works office does really appreciate it when you remember their birthday and get them a card or offer to drive them home when it’s raining.

People need other people on some level even when they think they don’t.

Wow. Just wow.

The women staying in bed for a month was taken too literally. I doubt any women is spending the entire month in bed and hardly moving but rather there is a long period of rest whilst the mum looks after the baby and the extended family looks after the mum. This is the general idea that I really admire in other cultures.

I can also see some people are being very vocal re being independent and this being a good thing. Being independent is generally a wonderful thing but not when you are a parent of a tiny new human. The OP was talking about community in the context of new parents.

It probably is. I don't see it as a bad thing personally, unnatural doesn't always mean bad or worse.

I suspect a lot of the reason is women being forced to work as well as raise kids. Women are traditionally the ones who provide the 'glue' in any community, doing the bulk of volunteering and looking out for other people. If they're exhausted from doing two jobs with often very little help from their partners, everyone suffers.

@MeanGreen I honestly hope you’re getting some support now. It’s really tough out here.

@AvrielFinch thats awful. How are you now?

It’s called being neurodivergent. 👋

I have been thinking about this a lot lately. My DC only have myself and my husband.

I wanted another DC but worry my lack of support, while working full time, will be so much more harder.

You’re probably right. A lot of men do seem to receive their primary social support via their wives. So makes sense it would extend to the community. That plus capitalism maybe?

You sound like a lovely person so it's not surprising that people want to help you and be around you, unlike some of the responses on here! Some people prefer to be alone and there's nothing wrong, but I do also agree with you that most people do need this on some level even if they don't realise it. I don't think it's an introvert or extrovert thing, it's a human thing

Growing up in rural Ireland meant we all knew our neighbours well and were willing to lend a hand to them when needed. It was a good community in that sense. However it was also stifling, people knowing too much about your business, being very judgmental and gossipy, huge pressure to conform and be "respectible". Overall I prefer being free of that. Family and friends are important but am wary of extended community...

@Buttercupsandpoppys I am fine. My mum married and had a happier life. But she never forgave her family for abandoning her. I am married and have friends. I am well aware my life could have been very different as many single mums at the time ended up in mother and baby homes and their children were adopted out. I know my mum fought really hard to keep and raise me.

@Itsjustmeheretoday thank you. Thank you, that’s really nice of you to say.

I respectfully disagree. Mental illness, anxiety etc is rife and I believe this is a huge contributor (lack of human interaction, support, love), it's actual science dopamine, serotonin etc.

I think in terms of mental health, insecurity is really bad for humans. Knowing you have people to rely on if things go wrong really helps people.