AIBU husband w*nking

[FarmerJojo81]

What are people's views on this? I know my husband does it and he says he needs to orgasm daily so if we don't have sex for a few days then I understand he gets frustrated. I turn a blind eye but know it goes on discretely - fine. For context we have had issues with our sex live since DC was born but have been trying to get back on track and this week have been having regular sex. Today I walked into the bedroom and he was having a wank whilst watching something on his phone. I was annoyed as it was morning and I was in the kitchen getting child's breakfast. I came looking for husband to see where he was. Child could have easily walked in. I was livid.

He is now annoyed with me as I "shamed" him and overreacted. I have apologised for storming out but not for being angry and said I don't take responsibility for his actions. He's saying it's all about how I make him feel and connected to our sex life problems.

You are speaking nonsense.

What if the kids walk in on mum and dad having sex? Do social services investigate every case when a younger sibling comes along? As in the majority of cases the younger sibling will have been conceived while the older sibling was in the house.

@Pikapikapikachu11 says in her posts that if a child walks in on a parent engaging in sexual activity, that parent is guilty of an offence under s 11 and 12 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 and on conviction they are liable to imprisonment. She says this means parents should never engage in sexual activity if a child is present in the house.

This is untrue. Section 11 says it is an offence to "knowingly or intentionally" expose a child to sexual activity "for the purpose of obtaining sexual gratification."
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/11

Section 12 says it is an offence to intentionally cause a child to "watch a third person engaging in an activity, or to look at an image of any person engaging in an activity" for the purpose of sexual gratification.
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/12

A person who has a wank, or have sex, when a child is in the next room does not commit an offence under either section. A person who is accidentally walked in on does not commit an offence under either section. This is because the person has no intention to expose the child to anything.

It is normal for parents to engage in sexual activity in their own house, regardless of whether a child is present in that house. People will be better parents if they do not shut off a natural part of their lives. They should of course take reasonable precautions not to expose their children to sexual activity. Nothing Pikapikapikachu11 says suggests the law has anything more to say.

I understand UK social services are short of funds. I hope their officers aren't wasting by investigating cases such as this. If so it would appear that they are exceeding the law.

I think Pikapikapikachu11 should return to the thread and apologise her inaccurate scaremongering.

I think she isn’t anything to do with social services and if she is then heaven help us. People spout a lot of absolute nonsense on here.
None of us would have two children if we weren’t having sex in a house with the firstborn around, unless everyone waits until they are nursery?! 😂

It's baffling, isn't it? However, I don't see anyone who says they work in care or social services saying they disagree with Pikapikapikachu11's sinister claim.

Oh dear… I know so many social workers with more than one child- they must spend hours and hours just investigating each other 😬.

This thread has gone way off topic from the original. There seems a lot of confusion. Can we get back to the real world here? Interpretation of the law is a matter for the courts, not social workers or police. Or Mumsnetters come to that!

Ignorance of the law is no excuse! 😆

@Pikapikapikachu11 So what you're saying is, if me and my partner are having sex, and our child walks in - it's indecent exposure?

Is that correct?

Of course not.

One of the most well-known female directors in the adult film industry is Erika Lust. She is a prominent figure known for her feminist and ethical approach to pornography

Another notable figure is Jacky St. James, who is known for her narrative-driven adult films. St. James has won multiple awards for her work, which often includes a focus on character development and storylines that go beyond typical adult film plots.

Both Lust and St. James are recognised for their contributions to diversifying the content and perspective within the adult film industry, making it more inclusive and respectful.

Why is it so hard to believe that women enjoy watching, participating in, and creating porn? It's not difficult to understand. Women have diverse sexual interests and preferences, just like men.

As I've just mentioned, female directors like Erika Lust and Jacky St. James, for example, have made significant contributions by bringing new perspectives and narratives that cater to a wider audience, including women. Their work often emphasises consent, mutual pleasure, and a broader range of sexual experiences, challenging the outdated stereotypes about what women want from adult entertainment.

Just accept women enjoy watching, participating in, and creating porn.

Forever?

Yes. I understood your question the first time.

Again, pornography is moving towards a diverse industry with a wide range of content. Not all pornography involves violence or degrading depictions of women. Many creators, including female directors, produce content that emphasises consent, mutual pleasure, and respect.

There is a growing movement towards ethical pornography, which focuses on fair treatment of performers, transparent production practices, and content that avoids harmful stereotypes or depictions of non-consensual acts.

The impact of pornography on viewers can vary. While some studies suggest a correlation between exposure to violent pornography and aggressive attitudes towards women, the evidence is not conclusive, and many factors influence individual behaviour and attitudes.

What you're highlighting is a gap in education and critical consumption skills, especially among young men. By promoting media literacy and encouraging critical consumption, we can help individuals differentiate between fantasy and reality, grasp the importance of consent, and identify problematic content. This approach not only fosters a more informed and respectful understanding of media but also contributes to healthier attitudes and behaviours.

Every one of the claims I have made are well-documented effects of watching pornography, e.g. that it is linked to sex crimes

In that case, could you provide evidence of a sex crime that has been directly linked to the consumption of pornography?

Misogyny

This doesn't come from pornography. That's media in general, historical and cultural traditions

But why do you want other people to watch you having sex, and, if you did not have the wherewithal to film it, would you invite all and sundry into your bedroom? Because that is what you are doing.

I'm not sure, maybe? Why does it bother you?

I am sure women enjoy watching porn. I do not agree that women enjoy making porn. Such women are among the most vulnerable in society, often survivors of rape and sexual abuse. They are frequently also trafficked, tricked into being prostituted and engaging in making porn films.
I do not know of Erika Lust or Jacky St. James, but if they make porn, for whoever, then they are dealing in trafficked women, abused women and women who are at the end of various horrible tethers. Just because they make 'women friendly' porn, with new ideas about mutual pleasure, and broader ranges of sexual experiences, does not negate that they are encouraging and taking part in the pornography industry. And just because something is pleasurable, btw, that does not mean one should indulge in it. Anything does not go - unless you are happy to queer norms and ditch accepted systems which ensure our objective perception of what we are engaging in. We also need to bear in mind the effect on others of our choices - and women friendly porn may be used to persuade women who do not want to engage in e.g. BDSM, or anal sex that not to do so is old-fashioned and prudish, so they should do what they are asked.

It really is what Pikapikapikachu11 was saying. There's no other explanation. And no, it's not correct at all. I won't say whether or not I have any legal training, however, I can read. As it happens, I can also write - the typos in my previous post were because I wrote it while I was about to rush out the door.

It was a disgraceful piece of scaremongering by Pikapikapikachu11. Either she is indeed a social worker and should know better. Or she's not - in which case she knew she was uninformed, and pretended to be one to make her point look more forceful.

(Edited to fix another typo 😉)

It is relevant to the OP though.

There are three things alleged against the husband.

First, that he was in bed while the OP looked after a child (my view: only one parent needs to give a child breakfast and presumably he does this too)

Second, he was looking at porn (my view: this is a presumption - we are not told what was on his screen. It could have been women in swimming costumes or 50 Shades of Grey for all we know)

Third, he was engaging in sexual activity while a child was an a nearby room. That's what this is relevant to (my view: this is normal and legal.)

My view- in private, where you cannot have someone walk in and see, OK. As long as any mess is cleared up.

Not otherwise.

So unless a lock on the door then? Or if house empty?

There is no such thing as ethical pornography. It is an industry that uses women as things. Not ethical.

Your responses are increasingly missing the mark and seem disconnected from the realities of the industry. This undermines your credibility. It’s important to consider the full spectrum of experiences and perspectives rather than making broad generalisations.

I do not agree that women enjoy making porn

Do you speak for every woman? I don't think so. Therefore, your argument is flawed. I've provided examples of female directors and platforms like OnlyFans, where the majority of creators are women who choose to participate willingly.

Your stance seems out of touch with reality.

if they make porn, for whoever, then they are dealing in trafficked women, abused women and women who are at the end of various horrible tethers

So now you're acknowledging that women can willingly participate in making porn and enjoy it, yet you're jumping to the conclusion that these women are trafficked. This is absurd. Platforms like OnlyFans involve consenting adults, not trafficked individuals. Additionally, creating porn with my partner is a consensual activity, not an instance of trafficking.

Your assumptions are misguided and oversimplified.

Just because they make 'women friendly' porn, does not negate that they are encouraging and taking part in the pornography industry

So what? If someone chooses to be part of the porn industry, that's their decision. It doesn't concern you, and they're not seeking your judgment. People have the right to make their own choices.

And just because something is pleasurable, btw, that does not mean one should indulge in it.

Says who? Just because you disagree with it doesn't mean others shouldn't partake. The world doesn't revolve around your personal opinions of what's right or wrong. Not everyone shares your perspective, and it's important to respect that.

Anything does not go

Well, that depends. As long as it's legal and within the boundaries of the law, there shouldn't be any harm.

Unless you are happy to queer norms and ditch accepted systems which ensure our objective perception of what we are engaging in

People have a fundamental right to pursue their desires and interests without judgment, provided they do so consensually and ethically. This includes the freedom to express themselves fully and authentically.

While challenging norms can be important, insisting that everyone must do so overlooks the rich diversity of individual experiences and values. Many find satisfaction and fulfillment within existing norms or choose to redefine them in ways that resonate personally.

Everyone should have the liberty to explore their sexuality in a way that feels right for them, free from the pressure to conform to or rebel against societal expectations. This approach honours individual diversity and underscores the principle that personal pleasure and consensual activities should not be subjected to external judgment or restrictive norms.

😅

Why is it funny to say there is no such thing as ethical pornography? Pornography exploits the vulnerable, especially women, often of a less advantaged class than that of the viewers. Thinking you can have ethical pornography, that is pornography that does not exploit the performers, is a luxury belief. Porn may not harm you. You may not be harmed personally from making an Only Fans porn film (but you should look at how Only Fans does not monitor content and how content can be moved to other sites without your consent) but other women (and men, and children) are harmed.
As you said to me, when I said that I did not think women enjoyed making porn films, you cannot speak for all women. And I agree with you - I cannot speak for all women when I say women do not like making porn, I can only speak for me and for the vulnerable women who are enmeshed in this multi-billion globalised industry. You may think that all the women you see performing are fine - you are not living in a slum in Bangladesh where you cannot feed your children, and selling your body - or your children's bodies - is the only way out. Once you understand that, you cannot believe in ethical pornography.
I don't speak for all, but someone has to speak up for the voiceless.

Ps Earlier point. There is a link between men who are violent sexually and their watching of violent porn, it is not clear which way causality goes, but one prefers such people not to have access to such stuff. I picked this up from a BBC website.

Pornography exploits the vulnerable, especially women, often of a less advantaged class than that of the viewers.

While this is true, it also true of every other industry in existence by which women earn a living. Exploitation of the vulnerable and lower classes is baked into every aspect of our society, so to condemn pornography on this basis alone seems to me to be a bit picky.

Hi @Grammarnut

While you have taken an unpopular position, I think you've made it with a series of thoughtful posts based on experience. I've re-read them a few times. My condolences to you, and although you have been somewhat critical of yourself I think you must have been a very loving spouse.

I hope you get to read this reply and I would like to know what you think of it.

You say masturbation in marriage (and use of porn) is a form of infidelity as it denies the point of sex, which is to connect with your partner. Or so I understand your argument. Sex for me is very much about connection so I have a lot of sympathy for that argument though I don't think it's practical in most cases.

First, about masturbation. I think you were fortunate to experience what you did in your second marriage. But I suggest that's not most people's experience (indeed, it wasn't in your first.) If there is a difference of libido, and yours is higher, you're forced into one of three choices, A, B and C. A is to try to make your partner keep up with you. That's the very worst choice: sex is a gift and gifts can't be coerced. B is to deny yourself. I have done this, but I've learned that it's unhealthy. My libido is a good barometer of my health and relationship: if it's gone, there's generally a problem. There is an attitude on this site that people, chiefly men, with libidos only have them because they aren't working hard enough, ie, take the cold shower of housework. While I can see the point, I don't think it's true, and being shamed for having a libido feels horrible.
So that leaves C, which is having some privacy to look after oneself, which makes you more able to look after one's partner if they are unable, for health or other reasons, to reciprocate. Also, we all need privacy in all manner of ways, even from our partners: intrusion into that privacy can mean embarrassment for both.

Second, about porn. I used to think it immoral. Now I'm more relaxed, though it does little for me: I feel no connection in it, and I am fortunate enough to have a wild imagination. Issues around porn have become complicated and varied and discussions just about anywhere tend to run lots of things together. The view I've come to is that in a society that allows sexual openness and expression, there will be porn, and this is simply always going to be a feature of it. The alternative is the more traditional society where discussion around sex was suppressed. There are claims that porn contributes to violence against women and girls. Maybe - but on the other hand, there always was violence against women and girls, all the more prevalent because the shame and secrecy around sex meant it could easily happen in the shadows. People who are repressive about sexual expression and people's sex drive risk standing - unintentionally - within that dark inheritance. So I'm not going to judge anyone simply for using porn, though I think anyone who does ought to be satisfied that it isn't exploitative.

Which brings us to the husband of the OP. They need to have a non-judgemental chat, and that could include various things but I think one element that she needs to bear in mind is that he probably does just have a high sex drive and she should accept and allow for this.

Hi@Catullus5 I find your post thoughtful and agree with much of it. I too have a vivid and wide-ranging imagination. I have to say that most of the porn I have come across was either cringe-making or boring - I can imagine something better than that! My second DH ditto.

I agree, if you are going to use porn you should make yourself aware of its source. I stand by the belief that pornography (and prostitution) are violence against women (which has always existed, I also know) and that the people acting in porn vids etc (even on Only Fans, which has a darker side of revenge porn and porn put up that was never meant to be published) are abused.

NB D'you like Catullus? He is one of my favourite poets (only in translation, sadly) and I understand very well the point of Lesbia's sparrow. I like sparrows too. Sadly, I see no more.