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Thread 51 Sunak: A William Hill to die on

998 replies

DuncinToffee · 24/06/2024 22:28

Previoust thread

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5100698-thread-50-sunak-civil-war-what-civil-war?page=40&reply=136272126

10 days to go

OP posts:
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85
SerendipityJane · 28/06/2024 18:32

If HRTQueen was gifted £10,000 by Reform, they would have to keep it. What a shit position to be in.

RafaistheKingofClay · 28/06/2024 18:33

No way do reform get 73 seats. Their vote is way less efficient that the Lib Dems.

user8800 · 28/06/2024 18:34

verdantverdure · 28/06/2024 17:54

It is going to close then @user8800 Shock

😬😪

CassieMaddox · 28/06/2024 18:35

"Patreon poll" and "stats for lefties" sounds suss to me

SerendipityJane · 28/06/2024 18:37

Rish! needs to learn German

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Cheguevarahamster · 28/06/2024 18:39

RafaistheKingofClay · 28/06/2024 18:31

Could it perhaps be simplified as this:

What was said about Rishi was wrong.
What Rishi said was right.
BUT he’s helped to create an environment where people are emboldened to say things like that and stands by and says nothing when a) the comments are aimed at other people and b) he benefits financially from the people making the comments.
None of the above justifies the comments but nobody, including him, should be surprised that people feel they can make those comments or if people call him a hypocrite.

Well said @RafaistheKingofClay . It's awful what was said - and Sunak is right to call it out. Unfortunately the Tories have perpetuated the hostile environment petri dish where racists thrive. Which (like Rafa says) doesn't justify the comments but...consequences.

SerendipityJane · 28/06/2024 18:41

RafaistheKingofClay · 28/06/2024 18:31

Could it perhaps be simplified as this:

What was said about Rishi was wrong.
What Rishi said was right.
BUT he’s helped to create an environment where people are emboldened to say things like that and stands by and says nothing when a) the comments are aimed at other people and b) he benefits financially from the people making the comments.
None of the above justifies the comments but nobody, including him, should be surprised that people feel they can make those comments or if people call him a hypocrite.

TL;DR: Fuck around, find out.

Bigcoatlady · 28/06/2024 18:45

Speaking as an effing p myself the kind of people who think effing p is ok to say existed before 2010 and will continue to exist after this election. They are violent racists who genuinely feel not just antipathy or anxiety towards people who different to them but actual aggression.

Whatever the faults of the last five Tory and coalition governments they have not been normalising that kind of extreme hate speech. I cannot think of a single Tory MP expressing a sentiment like that and of course many of them are effing p*s and from other BAME groups. What they HAVE done is fail to effectively deal with the rising anxiety of people on the right about immigration, our multi-ethnic communities, living in secular society etc. And they have taken money from Frank Hester who is definitely a violent racist which is inexcusable. Their lack of moral clarity about racism versus rightwing anti-immigration views is unacceptable.

The Reform Party which is mopping up the votes of the anxious far right votes is also mopping up the votes of violent racists. The ones who would shoot people arriving in boats, who think Hitler is unfairly maligned, and that we should turn all mosques into Wetherspoons. Reform has stood candidates or used canvassers who have said all those things. Not all reform voters are violent racists, but the majority of violent racists voting in this election will be voting reform.

No Conservative wanted that. The effect of their uselessness at maintaining a centre right home for moderate voters is expanding the base for parties like Reform which welcome racists as part of their coalition.

There is an opportunity here. The Conservatives are different and they need to be clear about that. They are not holocaust deniers, advocates of violence or outright misogynists. So for rightwing voters who want a small state but dislike extremism, they need to put an x there. To his credit Sunak has started to communicate that clearly today and I respect that.

cardibach · 28/06/2024 18:54

MissMarplesNiece · 28/06/2024 18:28

I don't know how this polling was carried out but Reform 73 seats, Farage leader of the opposition, Tories 3 seats! I really hope it's not accurate & it's the other way round.

This surely has reform and Tories the wrong way round - not in any realistic scenario do the Tories only get 3 seats.

Piggywaspushed · 28/06/2024 18:59

Goodness - just seen the Party Political Broadcast.

HRTQueen · 28/06/2024 19:05

pointythings · 28/06/2024 18:23

You're not getting it.

The Tories have done this. They have done it by using that kind of language about people - disabled people, foreign people, asylum seekers. And if the government uses that kind of language, people will think that it is OK to use that kind of language, and if they are a certain kind of person, they will feel safe using that kind of language in public.

But it started with our own government legitimising it. And Rishi Sunak has been part of that with his 'sick note culture' remarks, othering disabled people.

So now it has happened to him and he doesn't like it - but he and his party have been encouraging others to do it for over a decade. That's called hypocrisy.

Ok you continue

I understand perfectly thanks

I guess by your justification that anyone who isn’t white and votes Tory supports racism that might be directed towards themselves/family/friends

itsgettingweird · 28/06/2024 19:13

Piggywaspushed · 28/06/2024 18:59

Goodness - just seen the Party Political Broadcast.

Just full on Labour will destroy you.

Nothing about how they won't after 14 years if doing just that Angry

cakeorwine · 28/06/2024 19:15

As Keir Starmer has been saying, we have more in common and we should try to take the heat out of divisive politics. The Tories and the right wing media have been stoking division for ages. I wonder if they ever think what the effect of their language is.

Racism is wrong.

Stoking division will only lead to more people who feel emboldened to behave like this.

pointythings · 28/06/2024 19:16

HRTQueen · 28/06/2024 19:05

Ok you continue

I understand perfectly thanks

I guess by your justification that anyone who isn’t white and votes Tory supports racism that might be directed towards themselves/family/friends

Nope, you're still not getting it. I suspect you don't want to get it.

What was said about Rishi Sunak was wrong. Racism is wrong. But Sunak needs to own the fact that he and his party created the environment where such racist things can be said openly, he and his party need to apologise for sowing division, and he and his party need to put in the hard yards to heal those divisions.

If you can't see that 14 years of the Tories' rhetoric about anyone they perceive as 'other' has made this happen, you haven't been paying attention.

Let me say it again, in really simple terms.

What was said about Rishi Sunak was unacceptable
Rishi Sunak's party and indeed himself created the circumstances for those words to be said public.
Both of these things are true. That is not victim blaming.

cakeorwine · 28/06/2024 19:19

Just to remind people

Enemies of the people
Braverman and her attack on lawyers
Trans jokes in Parliament
Attacks on Diane Abbot by a Tory donor

HRTQueen · 28/06/2024 19:20

You don’t need to say it in really simple terms

I get that it has been justified because, but and so on what can he expect

Funny the right use justifications too and so do those who are anti semitic when they discuss Isreal it’s because, but and so on

newnamethanks · 28/06/2024 19:23

Equivocation is not a defence.

cakeorwine · 28/06/2024 19:23

HRTQueen · 28/06/2024 19:20

You don’t need to say it in really simple terms

I get that it has been justified because, but and so on what can he expect

Funny the right use justifications too and so do those who are anti semitic when they discuss Isreal it’s because, but and so on

It's not justified,

When he says how it makes him feel, I wonder if he has any understanding of how the attitude of his party and the language and the environment they have helped create makes other feel - who also suffer abuse. Abuse that is fuelled by his party and the right wing media.

I guess that would require some empathy.

Piggywaspushed · 28/06/2024 19:26

Rishi's answers are up.

prettybird · 28/06/2024 19:30

It has NOT been justified ConfusedConfusedConfused

Racism is wrong - no one has denied that Confused

What was said was and is wrong - everyone has agreed that Confused

NO-ONE is justifying it Confused

The Conservatives have, over the years, created an environment in which people can say and think these wrong things - that is also true Angry.

These things are NOT mutually exclusive Confused

countrygirl99 · 28/06/2024 19:31

cakeorwine · 28/06/2024 19:19

Just to remind people

Enemies of the people
Braverman and her attack on lawyers
Trans jokes in Parliament
Attacks on Diane Abbot by a Tory donor

Piccannini smiles
Letter boxes

TokyoSushi · 28/06/2024 19:31

👀

Thread 51 Sunak: A William Hill to die on
DuncinToffee · 28/06/2024 19:35

Piggywaspushed · 28/06/2024 19:26

Rishi's answers are up.

He continues his lies.

He called ECHR a foreign court again in his non answer to my question

OP posts:
Piggywaspushed · 28/06/2024 19:38

DuncinToffee · 28/06/2024 19:35

He continues his lies.

He called ECHR a foreign court again in his non answer to my question

And all the tax rise stuff.

medianewbie · 28/06/2024 19:39

prettybird · 28/06/2024 19:30

It has NOT been justified ConfusedConfusedConfused

Racism is wrong - no one has denied that Confused

What was said was and is wrong - everyone has agreed that Confused

NO-ONE is justifying it Confused

The Conservatives have, over the years, created an environment in which people can say and think these wrong things - that is also true Angry.

These things are NOT mutually exclusive Confused

Very well said @prettybird 👏