Why pick at spelling /grammar

[Idontgetit33]

Why do quite a few people not understand dyslexia and/or learning difficulties.

I do not know how to use grammar. If it does happen my phone has probably done it for me.

I do not know the difference between too, to , of and off. I get confused with they're even basic words like and ,him etc I sound them in my head as I write them even though I know how to spell them. There are lots mistakes I do but I can't see them.

People can tell me /explain but I will forget pretty much right away.

So what I don't understand Is why do many not all but many people pull up peoples spelling and grammar or they think the thread Is fake because of bad spelling.

If I feel emotional/stressed/ upset it could be worse

It sometimes comes across like there an understanding of children with dyslexia. But as am adult people seem to think it disappears.

I have dreadful spelling, and whilst my daughter’s spelling was fine until phonics at school, learning phonics ruined her ability to spell. Studies have since shown that for children with ASD, phonics makes their spelling worse, so many people will struggle with spelling as a result. DD is now in year 5 and it’s still a big issue for her, despite a lot of extra help, so who knows what it will be like when she is an adult? I rely on dictionary software and spellcheck.

I grew up in the 80s / 90s, and wasn’t taught grammar at school, despite going to perfectly decent State schools. No idea why, it just didn’t feature. It drove my (former proof reader) mother crazy, and she ended up teaching me grammar. Her methods (get it right or else!) were certainly effective, but when I’m distracted I make mistakes, plus on my phone my fat fingers often hit the wrong letter on the screen.

If other people correct my mistakes and do so kindly I don’t care. When they are unkind it stings though. I work with a lot of people with awful SPAG, and at work it’s a massive issue (get it wrong when you’re writing a legal contract and you change the meaning). None of them are dyslexic (or if they are they are saying they aren’t), they just didn’t learn at school, or didn’t retain the information, and that is REALLY frustrating as it makes so much work for the rest of the team. Honestly, having to proofread everything our younger staff do now, not just for legal issues but simply so it doesn’t go out full of SPAG errors, has become the norm. I’m not sure why, but in a professional sense it’s awful. On social media, meh. Annoying (sometimes tooth achingly so for my ASD self) but harmless.

Or if the children that need extra help are getting it ?

Hoist is not incorrect.

It is incorrect. You have used it in the present perfect tense so it needs to be a past participle: hoisted.

That saying does use “hoist” rather than “hoisted” though.

Or if the children that need extra help are getting it ?

Previous generations had perfectly good, normal spelling and grammar, but there has been a very noticeable decline in standards over the last 20 to 30 years. That's got nothing to do with people needing extra help or new conditions suddenly appearing; it's to do with what people value and put effort into.

My 9 year old has asd and learning difficulties. He's working at year 1 level. He has an EHCP . But I don't think he's getting the help he should be.

That's your ignorance showing, which is a shame. It's the same as saying the dyslexics could just learn to spell.

I'm talking about children that (need) it. My son has asd. He's 9 working ay year 1 level has an EHCP
But he does not get the help he should .

There are children with dyslexia that don't even get it recognised till secondary school.

It's a quote from Shakespeare, so while technically incorrect, it is yet correct.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoist_with_his_own_petard#:~:text=%22Hoist%20with%20his%20own%20petard,ironic%20reversal%20or%20poetic%20justice.

It's nothing of the sort, in fact it's the total opposite.

Dyslexics can't simply learn to spell.

That's completely different to someone constantly breaking the rules of the forum they've chosen to join, because they can't seem to hit the X button in the corner of the screen.

There is part of me that thinks that if we all just accept everyone writing with poor spelling and grammar then language is eroded because nobody bothers to write correctly anymore.

Well how is not accepting it working out for people?

It's not is it?

It's just upsetting people who want to be better but for whatever reason they can't, and it's just causing rows with those who couldn't care less when they're chatting on an internet forum.

There’s also a lack of teachers; learning techniques that aren’t suitable for those with ASD (namely phonics); and teachers who have poor spelling etc. DD’s primary school teachers write the same way they speak, which given we are in SE London includes lots of “would have” instead of “would have”. On another thread, someone said the teacher shortage means people are passing the training course who shouldn’t - and who wouldn’t have in the past - and that means teachers who aren’t going to be as capable. All of these things will have an effect.

My DD really wants to be able to spell well. I’m not sure she ever will, but she really, really tries.

Why don't people use dictation if they have difficulty writing? We've got this fantastic speech-to-text facility now; if you're on a phone it's the easiest thing in the world to use!

Best of all ... when the machine uses the wrong version of a word (they do sometimes), you can tell the critics it's not your fault 😁

I had to explain types of ‘code switching’ to some of my staff. For instance, the fact that whilst in non-work situations it’s fine to speak and write a certain way (lots of slang for instance, or use of patois), when in a professional setting (client meeting, writing materials for publication etc), a different style of speech and writing is required. It’s something a lot of them struggle with. Teachers used to have to use ‘standard English’ (might be called something different but similar, I can’t entirely remember) for teaching. It meant that whilst we all had strong local accents growing up, and used a lot of ‘local language’, I and most of the children I was at school with also learned to speak and use ‘proper’ English, and how to de-emphasise our accents, in the same way as our teachers did. I don’t think it happens any more, but it helped all of us to be taken more seriously when we entered the workplace, and it still helps now. I don’t think the accent issue was a good thing to be clear, but learning to speak and write in a professional style was definitely useful.

The irony, I tried to write “would of” in a previous post, and just realised that spellcheck ‘corrected’ it and now I can’t change it 😂

@ISeriouslyDoubtIt
Many of the spelling mistakes on this forum are ones a primary school child wouldn't make, which is why I'm disparaging about adults that make those mistakes, unless they have learning difficulties like the OP. Also it shows that the people who make those mistakes must never read a book or newspaper otherwise they'd know how to spell basic words.

It sounds like you are deliberately trying wind people up.

Why is it so difficult to understand that some people genuinely really struggle to spell. I'm sure there is a strong correlation between reading and spelling but it's ignorant and nasty to declare poor spellers 'must never read a book'. I'm a really shite speller but I'm very well read. I regularly go to the theatre, I was a supporting cast membership holder at the National Theatre for many years. I watch Only Connect, University Challenge and Countdown, go to literary festivals and museums and generally do all the types of things I suspect you wouldn't expect of someone who is rubbish at spelling.

I've rote learnt how to spell lots of words but some just won't stick and even with ones that I do know I often have to momentarily stop and think how to spell them. I've a good memory for other things but not for spelling.

I also can't hold music in my head. I love music and listen to it every day but I can't hum it back to you.

You genuinely don’t have a clue how people have their keyboards set up within their settings. If I type a word incorrectly, I don’t have a red line under the word so how would I know?

People that pick apart other posters spelling on MN are really rude especially as they’re not going to be able to tell whether someone has a difficulty with spelling or not….

@middlenglander
Previous generations had perfectly good, normal spelling and grammar, but there has been a very noticeable decline in standards over the last 20 to 30 years. That's got nothing to do with people needing extra help or new conditions suddenly appearing; it's to do with what people value and put effort into

I'm not sure that's even true? Or have you just made it up for dramatic effect? I thought literacy rates had improved.

Imagine being all smug and know-it-all, then insisting the well known phrase is "hoisted" by one's own petard! I'm cringing for that poster. It just shows some posters are not quite as perfect as they think they are, so should maybe hold back on criticising others.

I think a PP hit the nail on the head with saying the SPAG wankers are sanctimonious pricks.

It's not necessarily laziness or dyslexia that mean someone makes mistakes. They may have received a substandard education. They may just be a bit less bright; either generally or perhaps with English. So what? They still need help and advice if they're being abused by their partner.

My DH is brilliantly clever... at physics: Cambridge scholar, PhD. He can't spell for toffee! Sent me a message saying he'd done the hovering today.

I agree it uses hoist, I’ve never heard or read ‘hoisted’.

@middlenglander

True, but often we use the 'wrong' words or not the word what a native would. Having English as a second language is quite often misinterpreted on MN as low intelligence. Rarely in a polite way.

@CelesteCunningham

No idea why I can't remove that tag (my phone seems to think I only want to talk to you @CelesteCunningham 😂 though it may have a point!)

@theeyeofdoe

And you've seen that mistake often?

Obviously, you're quite right. I wouldn't contact someone on LinkedIn who made that kind of mistake (or couldn't use punctuation properly-with the names of languages, or knowing when to use a comma in a conditional sentence etc)

Thankfully, this is a social media chat forum, not a business networking site, so it doesn't really matter in the scheme of things.

As pp have said, "hoist" is correct in this expression. The modern regular past simple and participle ending came much later than the original verb used in the expression referenced above.

They have.

I'm 58 and like a pp who was state school educated in the 70s and 80s had no SpaG education whatsoever.

My own school timetabled English and Technical Studies in the same block and we did 6 weeks of each on a rotation. The English consisted of a box of materials printed on cards that each child dipped in and out of and chose whichever they wanted, and until 4th and 5th year (as was) there was no designated English teacher. Mine was a Sports teacher. (My mother, like pp's of another generation and education system was horrified, and her friend, one of the English teachers who took on the classes after the 3rd year often said "we've failed a generation".

When we got to the 4th year, we started to study "literature" which involved modified texts and extracts and comprehension questions. My O'level was Literature.

Obviously, each generation has its obstacles, and it is true that a lot of children are still falling through the literacy gaps, but it's definitely better than it was for some children before there was a National Curriculum and standardisation. Each school did what it saw fit, and mine was one that placed as much emphasis on English as it did on metalwork.