Starmer + Sunak debate thread

[MidnightPatrol]

Anyone interested in discussing the debate this evening? On ITV now.

And the Tories have done a cracking job with the economy at the moment

What’s even more ridiculous is that the Labour Party’s own website has promised to make use of the private sector:

“We will also use spare capacity in private healthcare providers to clear the NHS backlog”

So he’s happy to make use of the private sector for the general population but not for his own family?

Of course he is the one who should define it for all us.
You are just proving that you lot are only interested in getting to power. Hopefully from now until July 4. KS would shown he is hopeless as a PM and not what the U.K. needs. Even if you don’t want this it would come up during the campaign. However, everyone who comments on it would be called a bot.

Not him..his loved ones. I don’t believe for a second he would inflict suffering on
his children in the name of his “principles”. The interviewer clearly didn’t believe it either.
The question flummoxed him and there was his odd insistence that his wife worked in a “big london hospital”. Erm okay. So do lots of people. Plenty of them would use private healthcare if it meant their children wouldn’t suffer needlessly. My family are also a family of NHS medics. We use private healthcare if the wait is too long. Obviously.

I nodded my head in agreement when Sunak spoke about heat pumps. I've got one and had to replace virtually everything last year and it wasn't cheap (the only thing they didn't replace were the pipes and tanks). I know others in my block haven't had them fixed for the same reason I didn't cost!

Many people don't have 8-10k lying about and that's on the cheaper side of it. It cost me 8k to get mine fixed/replaced.

I have no clue where I'd charge an electric car, I live in a small block of flats with a communal car park shared with neighbouring houses too.

Sunak was more polished and determined. He landed his points more succinctly and where necessary spoke over the presenter to do that.

However:
The £2k thing isn't true
He was flustered when Starmer mentioned the report on the costing on the energy plan
No one thinks the national service thing will happen
Sunak's calling of the election six months the before he had to and before anyone has gone to Rwanda does suggest he knows it's never going to happen.

And I will NEVER EVER vote Tory.

Yes we need to help people make the necessary changes and that may well mean financial support

As well a stricter rules around house building, stronger building regulations on extensions ( so you can't afford to extend if you can't afford to bring the whole home up to a suitable standard )

It's cheaper in the long run

And that might mean big changes including wealth / inheritance taxation

Because it's cheaper in the long run

Especially if you dislike things like uncontrollable immigration/ migration, super high inflation , uninsurable and so unmortgageable houses , the last winter

Do you think his smashing the gangs thing is a good idea though? I know you’ll vote for Labour but wondering how we can be the only country mostly relying on catching networks

Their existence is almost endless you catch one lead and another crops up, plus tracking down in difficult countries?

Starmer came across as weak and flustered to me. Not a good look for a future PM. I disliked Rishi interrupting and he did come across as tetchy but he seemed to have some passion at least. I'm sure it's due to the positions they come from, Rishi knew he needed to be on the offensive and come out fighting, Keir seemed nervous because he has more to lose so I also think "say nothing, don't say anything they can trip you up with" was a deliberate tactic from Labour but it's very uninspiring when he will likely be Prime Minister in July.

In the face of the Conservatives' over the past 14 years and all their mistakes I'd expect Starmer to be wiping the floor with them but he isn't. It's so depressing how weak they have been as an opposition party.

I'm a floating voter and really don't know who to vote for. I'll be waiting for the manifestos to come out and make my decision then.

@EasternStandard I think immigration is a good thing for this country in the whole.

I want safe and legal routes for people to come to the UK and that would in itself stop the boats in time. People use boats because they can't get to the UK safely.

I appreciate that I might be an outlier on this because hard line immigration policies don't do anything for me at all. I want to stop people profiteering from desperate people but the way to do that for me is to facilitate immigration in a controlled way.

I hate the hostile environment we have created and the way that appalling failures by this government are blamed on immigrants. It's a smokescreen.

I'm sure the upper middle performance lefties will happily pay more tax. They can afford it. The lower middle and working classes will surely take issue with Keir's tax grab plans though. As they should....

yes, but why do they leave safe countries like France to use the boats? Why?

Ok I don’t think anyone will solely do safe routes (ie some will exist but it won’t be the main way people get here). Either here or other countries as it would be overwhelming

Starmer won’t offer safe routes even if would poll higher with his voters due to it being not feasible

I understand your sentiment but think as an option it’s out

All sorts of reasons. Often because of family, friends or an established community in the UK. Sometimes because of common language or colonial history. Often in the hope of jobs or opportunity. Also France have more refugees than us as do some other European countries.

https://www.economicsobservatory.com/asylum-seekers-in-europe-where-do-people-go-and-why.

“Vote Labour? You better get saving”

I thought that was Sunaks best line. And true.

KS would be a terrible PM. He’s obviously uninspiring and full of crap. TBH I’m no clearer about his policies, there’s lots of rhetoric and sound bites and the usual Tory slating, but he seems very naive about the realities of government. Yeah cool, you’d “get round the table and talk to the junior doctors”. But to say what? What’s your position?
Yeah cool, you love the NHS, but what’s your plan to make it work when the cost for it goes up year on year?
yeah cool, you don’t want boats coming over the channel, so what’s your exact position? What would you do to stop them? I’m not sure “talking to them” or “bringing down the gangs” is anything other than what a 10 year old would say.

I’d have loved him to be better than that given he’s going to be PM in a few weeks. Very depressingly below pedestrian performance

that's not claiming asylum though is it? That's economic immigration.

IMHO the Rwanda policy is the best policy the tories have. It is obviously a deterrent for the criminal gangs if enforced.

I think it is humane and I am glad that Sunak made clear we’d leave the European court of human rights if they blocked it, we are perfectly capable of being moral ourselves.

These immigration positions are far far stronger than labour’s. Might not be enough but they are in the interests of British people.

And yesterday in the news it reported people in Germany are pushing back on records number of immigration following an incident that happened. It'd not just in the UK but many European countries are saying we cannot continue

@LumiB
its global. I find it sooo strange that every western country has had an implosion of illegal immigrants post Covid.

the numbers in the US are astronomical

Starmer had many opportunities to deny this and he didn't.

Breaking news. Sunak lied about the £2k tax rise. What a surprise.

The June EU elections are soon I guess we’ll see where they shift. We’d be mad to be outliers as other countries tighten up but will wait and see

The Tories got the Treasury to cost up Labour's plans? I consider this to be a party political request and not something the Treasury should have been asked to do, I'm really surprised they agreed to do it, I'm not surprised they are now trying to distance themselves from it - it's not the function of the civil service.

Starmer did deny it and the BBC fact checked it afterwards and discredited it. It was based on some very spurious assumptions.

Oh . . .