Starmer + Sunak debate thread

[MidnightPatrol]

Anyone interested in discussing the debate this evening? On ITV now.

Yes, maybe not the right way to describe it but he’s been equipped with the over confident, self belief

Stand out phrase that made me chuckle. Teenage dad’s army!

I thought Stammer sounded more genuine. I think he relied on his barrister training too much and was too reserved. I couldn’t stand RS talking over KS. Too short time to get proper answered. Lots of filling words used by both to take up time.

I think kier starmer isn’t used to being rushed when responding. To me, he came across as someone who really cares about this country. Rishi sunak looks like someone whose heart is elsewhere.

I am surprised Starmer didn't do more to refute the £2k tax thing. Although, Sunak was very annoying claiming that Labour don't have a plan, even though they must have used this non-existant plan to come up with the £2k estimate

Same.

And I am a floating voter. But Rishi came across as out of control and superficial

Am assuming we have had a bit of an invasion of right wingers on here tonight though so can't be bothered to engage

I'm not persuaded that Kier Starmer was unprepared, or too polite, or too rushed. I think this was his exact strategy: Say as little as possible. Pivot back to the Tory record. Reveal nothing that could be pounced upon.

I find that strategy completely unacceptable at this stage in the game. Voters need actual answers from the man who will inevitably be PM in a month.

Yes, Sunak going through the motions and can’t wait to get out of there - he really does come across as someone in the last month of his three months notice period i.e don’t care, I’m out of here!

I found it astonishing Rishi pretended he and his family care about the environment when we all know he recently did this...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/12/rishi-sunak-has-electricity-grid-upgraded-to-heat-his-private-pool

Just googled what Rushi sunak said about keir working for Abu Quatada 😳 … some sly digs from both of them today but it does give me pause for thought when I hear about their past actions.

Why? He has no idea what sort of shit storm he's about to inherit and making promises he thinks/knows he can't keep is a terrible strategy. Wait for the manifesto.

He was acting as their barrister. The taxi rank principle would have applied

I didn't know he helped him to fight deportation either.

Sunak never does well in front of a camera, he wasn't half as bad as Johnson's lick-spittle replacement in the previous debates. The Tories have done quite well to keep him out the media for the last year and a half as he's a disaster zone. I don't think he articulates himself well at all, it's like watching some dithering kid at school in year 9 at best. He's our prime minister for gawd's sake. How did it come to this...? It has just gotten worse and worse and worse over 14 years. Chat GPT could do better.

This thread is mad. I feel like I watched a different debate. I think starmer came across well. Polite, mature and educated. Sunak was like a spoilt little boy trying to shout louder.

Starmer tried to answer the question the tax issue plenty of times but wasn't given half the air time.

Starmer for PM.

This was a very weak debate. Etchingham was rubbish - Fiona Bruce is much better.

Apparently Labour are getting in and I wouldn’t mind if they weren’t going to force people down the net zero route!

I don’t want an electric car 🚘 or a heat pump

From Sky News

We've just had the results from a snap debate poll taken by YouGov during the contest.
Sky News can reveal that Rishi Sunak won - but only just.
The question was: "Leaving aside your own party preference, who do you think performed best overall in tonight’s debate?"
The audience responded:

• Rishi Sunak: 51%
• Sir Keir Starmer: 49%

There are two possible scenarios: either he does not KNOW what he would do (which is where you answer leans) or that he knows but does not want to SAY because they would be unpopular.

I think the second is far more likely from someone with his level of experience in politics, but I find both scenarios problematic at this level.

@thefoolorg same for me, teenage dads army 😂.
I'm wonder if that will make any headlines.

Agree!! What a joke.

Lots of MN shy Tories feeling a bit less shy because of the end of the tax break for private schools. The reaction on the wider internet is rather different.

From Sky

We've just had the results from a snap debate poll taken by YouGov during the contest.
Sky News can reveal that Rishi Sunak won - but only just.
The question was: "Leaving aside your own party preference, who do you think performed best overall in tonight’s debate?"
The audience responded:

• Rishi Sunak: 51%
• Sir Keir Starmer: 49%

Guardian doing some fact checking…

on the £2000 tax claim by sunak - sounds like Starmer was right when he said is was made up by the tories:

Would every family’s taxes go up by £2,000 under Labour?This much-repeated line from Sunak is based on a supposed £38.5bn “black hole”, one based on an official Treasury forecast, done by civil servants. What Sunak did not say – for obvious reasons – is that the calculations were based on assumptions set out by Conservative-appointed political advisers. They are also heavily contested by Labour (and would possibly be contested in private by some of those Treasury officials). Both sides will debate this but it is fair to say that the claim is very unproven and most likely incorrect.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/04/reality-check-how-do-the-leaders-claims-in-tv-debate-stack-up?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Yes but the debate was on ITV..

Disliking KS over the Abu Qatada thing is stupid if you know how the Bar works. crim barristers are like doctors they can't choose their clients/patients they just have to deal with whichever cases they get in front of them.

This isn't the US where public defenders are paid buttons and everyone who can gets private lawyers. Legal aid covers legal costs for all defendants including terror suspects, rapists, mass murderers..if you are a crim.law specialist you are going to work with some guilty people.

But it's pretty vital - we couldn't try terror suspects if they had no one to defend them

we can always rely on The Guardian for fact checking 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣