Starmer + Sunak debate thread

[MidnightPatrol]

Anyone interested in discussing the debate this evening? On ITV now.

Car crash for Labour. KS failed to offer any substance. Sunak made his point well about additional taxes. Squandered opportunity for Labour and Starmer seems very weak on everything.

Starmer didn’t disagree when Sunak told us we will need to change our cars, boilers etc by 2030 as part of a Labour green pledge, we just can’t afford that, or the extra £2000 taxes so we won’t be voting for Labour. Just can’t afford to.

Starmer explained that the £2000 claim was based on false figures produced by the Tories. He explained that increased tax is coming from taxing energy giants, closing tax loopholes, and taxing non dom prople. He said there would be no increase of national insurance or income tax.
Pensioners pay tax now. The only reason the state pension isn’t currently taxed is because it’s below the tax threshold since it’s so bloody low. Sunak is so bloody dishonest.

Why is this relevant the working class question?

I don’t think it’s nerves, it’s consideration and thoughtfulness, attributes far more suited to being a PM than knee jerk reactions like Sunak’s pension promise and National service policy!

I think we all know we will be paying more taxes with labour. Starmer didn’t try to deny it.

Labour green pledge is out of touch with the public. We can’t afford to upgrade our whole houses. Air source heat pumps are going to be a nightmare in built up areas. Just so bitterly disappointed in Starmer this evening.

Well he made it clear that the £2000 claim was false. I don’t actually expect to pay more tax under Labour, though, as it happens, would be happy to pay more tax if it was properly invested in public services. At present we pay high taxes for nothing while Sunak’s personal wealth increased by £120 million last year and he’s now richer than the King. It’s obscene.

I just don’t trust Labour will deliver on anything. It was a hollow performance by Starmer. I don’t actually know what they are expecting the public to vote for. Labour do not seem to stand for anything apart from building millions of homes on green belt, green ‘pledges’ left over from Boris Johnson and GR.

There’s the plan for the publicly owned clean energy giant, Great British Energy, which will rely on sustainable power. Starmer articulated this v clearly. He didn’t say anything about forcing us all to pay to upgrade our homes.

Yes he did say we will by 2030

And who is going to pay for Great British Energy? Us of course.

Vanity projects we simply can not afford FFS!!

He did not say that ordinary people will have to pay to have heat pumps etc installed. There are already government grants. Labour is far more likely to increase these.
There are many savings to be made from not funnelling money to your mates. The current government has spent billions of public money doing this. Just look at what went to Michelle Mone and Dido Harding, and what good that did the public. Labour won’t be perfect, but compared to this shower, they’ll be freaking amazing.

Yes, he seemed to consider his answers more carefully. In any case, having some nerves wouldn’t be a bad thing, as it suggests humanity, a desire to do a good job, and recognition of the enormity of the task at hand.

It’s the over-confident smooth talkers you should be more wary of, and yet the general public will get behind them every time.

I am not convinced at all, and worry things will get even worse tbh. A strong economy and jobs are more important to me than green pledges that seem vaccous and out of touch with our priorities.

I agree.
I don't know who I'm going to vote for yet but this performance from Starmer was so weak. He only attacked Tory policy but did not come up with anything of his own.
Disappointing from Labour and string performance from Sunak.

Hard to get behind a Labour government after that weak performance from Starmer and his inability to directly answer questions about the future. He either has no plan or is being deliberately vague. Both are worrying at this stage. And does anyone really believe he wouldn't pay for private healthcare for a family member? That alone invites deep suspicion.

I don't believe ut why because in London when ulez was extended the aceappage schemes were only available for those on benefits. Then with all the push back once ulez had gone live khan then said he would extend ot to anyone...well to fucking late already went through the pain of finding the money to change my car. So I'll go by track record and their actions rather than words.

So I don't believe it when it comes to other grants for scrapping boilers etc.

Yet kier says he is for the working people, well millions of working class people sont earn enough to build.ip big private pension savings, they are reliant on that state pension so to tax the state pension hits the poorest pensioners the most.

A few people have said Starmer had no answers and they don't know what he'd do and a few of us have typed out his responses that we heard on the debate. I wonder if anyone can actually articulate what Sunak's plan is, because while I heard him say he wouldn't put up taxes and he talked about his National service 'plan', I have no idea what else he will actually do based on that debate.

Nobody on here has mentioned the retirement tax that KS also did not deny. The new Triple Lick Plus where there will never be tax on the state pension.
KS can't/won't commit to that.

I didn't think RS was rude. I thought he was fired up. He constantly asked KS direct questions but KS looked shifty and didn't answer a single one. He won't even make eye contact. Very poor for an experienced lawyer.

KS was incredibly shifty. Constantly muttering when RS was answering and the presenter had to repeat to KS who to answer to as his focus was all over the place

I didn’t find RS rude either, more direct than Starmer

The heat pump stuff, I don’t want that expense

I woikd I think wishing was frustrated kier woukd simply answer the question asked. I'd be the same just flipping answer yes or no or tell us how. Stop waffling and I for one want to hear what you are going to do in the the future stop banging on about the past it's done cant be changed we can only look forward now. Actually I csnt stand peolle who do this, constantly loan about well in the past blah blah blah

There are already government grants. Labour is far more likely to increase these.

How will increased government grants be funded? Either by increased taxes, reduced spending elsewhere or borrowing.

He's a LIAR for saying he wouldn't go private for health care for his family? You're talking bosh. Plenty of people my DH among them would never use private healthcare as a matter of principle. And yes he and others I know have suffered rather than take that route.

Really! If he can’t define working class easily. God help us. However, I find Labour followers always try to defend the indefensible to make sure the party looks good. He is supposed to be representing the working class.

The working class quite simply isn't easily definable anymore. You only need to look at the raging debates on here to appreciate that

Why don't you attempt to define it?

I think we've had a Tory bot invasion as they are just uttering the same things over and over again. I imagine there was some whisky involved as some of them aren't even intelligible any more.