Do men have it harder than women with somethings

[seewhatssaid]

Just that i was having a chat to day with someone i know and she said yes men do get a rough time now.
I aske give a reason you think that she said this.

A single young woman went to her housing office afew weeks ago and claimed homelessness she was places in a b&b and giving 56 days to bid on a home and banding will go up to band B.
A single young man came in 2 days later same issue working etc he was told all they can do is give him a sleeping bag and a tent his banding wont go up due to no high needs.
She said both cases were the same both single both working min wage.
But got treated very different.
I was a bit shocked i said well this dont happen much she said it happens more than we know.
After a catch up it got me thinking do some men have it harder than some women.
I know on MN they do but in real life do we not see it as much.
I have to almost adult boys and i think what would i feel like if someone gave them a tent because they are well just men.

Men are not AS vulnerable sleeping on the streets, thats why. A homeless woman is more likely to be a victim of sexual violence from men.

No, its not right - people seem surprised to learn that the council are under zero obligation to house you. Its advice that's bandied about quite a bit on here.

My Dad lost his tenancy while in long term hospital and despite not being able to walk, clean or feed himself. or get to the toilet. hospital were just going to dump him at the council office who had told us that as Dad had not lived in the area for 5 years, they were under no obligation to house him.

Its only through sheer persistence did we manage to secure him somewhere safe to live.

The system KILLS people. Men and women.

When my parents divorced in the early 90s, we had a three bed house within a fortnight from the council. Can you imagine that even being a possibility these days?

If you're an incel what are you doing on MN ?

coxesorangepippin · Yesterday 19:59
I'm struggling to have much sympathy tbh”

Why? What an horrible attitude. Young men can be equally vulnerable.

Ah, OK, thanks.
I'm assuming that most people in the western world nowadays believe that men and women have equal value? So most people in the UK are at least feminist lite? Though maybe I'm being very naive here?
But I mean, I don't think many people would like to see eg, women lose the right to vote?

I think a majority would say that men and women have equal value but in practise it still doesn't work that way

For example ( people do this from time to time ) send in 2 almost identical cvs, just one is John and one is Joanne - john gets an interview and Joanne doesn't

Another example is the fact that safety gear doesn't fit women because it's been designed around a male default

Loads of examples like this - search for a book called invisible women by Caroline somebody

And a subset of "equal value" people believe that managing the home is the "equal value" that women should bring of course

I think different things are expected of men, and they often might be more physically arduous. Because men are in general, bigger and stronger.

I think most things that men are whining about now - and yes, it is whining - are because they see women being brought up to parity as women getting preferential treatment.

And like someone else commented - in the main, I have limited sympathy. This is a man's world, set up for men, by men. They have the capacity to change it but won't. I do feel sorry for individuals of course, but the second they start with the "feminism gone too far" I will tune out and probably dismiss everything else they say.

Feminist can mean anything these days

Only if you subscribe to the standard that the meaning of words can change just because you say so.

You’re confusing neoliberalism with patriarchy for the economics and governance issues (correct on medicine, since it was primarily male dominated until very recently). That’s not very class conscious of you.

By all means risk against bad men. But to think men are the sole reason is misguided and, hate to say it, they aren’t vanishing as a sex anytime soon.

I get what you're saying.
I guess I'm thinking of my own life, as a white western woman, I feel fairly privileged, by global standards. Got to be honest.
By British standards, not entirely, as mental health struggles and some trauma have left me quite poor. Not a home owner etc.
But, by global standards certainly. We all are.
Economic systems are heavily weighted in favour of the west (as I'm sure you know) leaving most in the global south heavily disadvantaged. Is that the patriarchy too, or just the worst excesses of capitalism? Though maybe those things are linked.
I get so confused by all this stuff!

Some women might gravitate towards Alpha men. But, personally, I'm not attracted to Alphas at all! Give me a Beta or a Zeta any day!

https://www.wikihow.com/Male-Personality-Types

There's fairly good data that adding one woman to a board, for example, doesn't change culture. Token women, or PoC for that matter, tend to be those who outdo the white men. More venal, more controlling, more aggressive, more cutthroat.

The reason certain women ascend thorough the ranks is a combination of respect earned because of them exemplifying white male behaviour, and the bonus of having a 'see we hired a woman' to wheel out for photo ops.

What you need for change is half. Half management, half the cabinet, half the parliament, half the cushy jobs, being filled by women. Then the culture can slowly change. Out of almost 200 countries in the world, 3 manage to have half the lower house female and none of those manage 50% in the upper house. Only Antigua and Barbuda manages >50% in the upper house and they are 11% in the lower. Give us 10 years of 51% in each and we'll see if culture changes and good female leaders appear.

Maybe between John and Joanne. Throw in a name that's not English and typically white and see what happens.

Who gets hired between Joanne and Tashaua.
Joanne and Shemar.

There are loads of them recently. God knows the rest of the internet is full enough of these sub-tate red pill losers, I guess we were lucky previously that they didn't come here so much.

I did think of adding that - but I couldn't remember if men with none white /engish names do worse than the women with none white names - so the pecking order may be names associated with white english men , names associated with white english women , then none white/ English women and then the none English / white men names ?

In some situations I think you get that pattern but can't remember if that's true on the job applications

It's all wrong

I've been around a lot of rich men and women and heard both sexes say they would never interview someone whose name they couldn't pronounce or recognize as English.

Incels and their male-centred handmaidens seem to be all over the place bending women's ears with their entitled bullshit, instead of actually supporting men, and men's rights. Shows what their real priority is.

As a woman living in a man's world I flatly refuse to expend brain energy on centering men, or engaging in silly 'yeah but' circular without end gender-warring.

I know if I came across a man or woman at night, I'd be more in fear and danger of rape injury or death from the man. I choose the woman or the bear. That's it.

@DeeCeeCherry ,

‘I know if I came across a man or woman at night, I'd be more in fear and danger of rape injury or death from the man. I choose the woman or the bear. That's it.’

This man or bear thought experiment is incredibly bizarre though. What is it meant to show, other than making a point and showing you really dislike men? Statistically a random bear is far more likely to attack and kill you than a random man (based on actual facts).

And, if your house were burning and you were trapped, would you rather see coming through the smoke a woman, a bear or a 6’4 fireman built like a brick shithouse? Sometimes brute strength and testosterone are absolutely great.

Newbutoldfather
I really could not care less if a random man hanging around a 90%+ woman's forum to be heard, arbitrarily decides that I don't like men, and thinks entitled mansplaining would change my view - is there a 🍪 to be had for a woman liking men that are absolutely zero to do with her? Not that I like cookies.

Reiterates my view - in terms of safety I'd choose the woman, or the bear.

Quite a lot are. I work in primary education and I notice. Also, the red pill movement that's been really toxic for boys encourages boys to be strong and not complain or cry. Don't underestimate the power the Andrew Tates of this world have. He may have his hands full with accusations coming out of his ears but there were plenty of YouTubers that have moved in and filled the void.

Good grief is this the first time you've heard of man or bear?

Absolute bollocks!

Like if there's a man and woman walking down the canal and a kid fell in, Who'd be expected to dive in?

Depends which one of them is the better swimmer.

I'd definitely choose the bear too. Most of us would.
Like many, I've been followed in the dark, absolutely terrifying.
But, I actually still think the majority of men don't go around intentionally trying to scare women. As mentioned up thread, I'm angry about male violence, but not angry with men generally.
I think of gentle sweet souls like my own wonderful dad (I'm very fortunate to have been brought up by a kind man) and just have to see people as people, and take as I find 🤷‍♀️

@TryingToSeeTheFunnySide "But, I actually still think the majority of men don't go around intentionally trying to scare women. As mentioned up thread, I'm angry about male violence, but not angry with men generally."

I don't think the majority of men do that either. I'm not angry with men because I think they're all violent. I AM angry with them for not doing more in their workplaces, with their friends and in their parenting to redress the balance- to challenge violent and sexist behaviour and to bring up their children to be part of a better society.

OK, fair points.
I do sometimes think that sexism/misogyny gets under the skin of some men without them even knowing.
I remember discussing secondary education with my brother a few years ago. I was defending single sex education for girls, as thought my niece would thrive there, saying from a feminist point of view there's masses of evidence that girls do better, and especially sensitive girls. Saying it's a shame there aren't more state girls schools in many areas (I went to co-ed schools, would have preferred all girls). Anyway, my brother retorted that that wouldn't help boys, as boys do better with girls around. I was a bit shocked that a decent bloke like my brother (a dad of both a boy and a girl) thought it was the role of girls to improve the educational experience of boys! Made me think about everyday sexism. I wish I'd had the courage to challenge him, but I was a bit shocked at the time.
Needless to say I care enormously about the education of boys too, and actually do think single sex boys schools could contribute to toxic masculinity, so not sure what the answer is. But, it was his assertion that girls should effectively have their own educations compromised to make things better for males that shocked me a bit.
That's an arbitrary example of what you're saying I think.
Probably most men don't even realise it, as patriarchy is everywhere...

Really interesting point about mothers doing danage/stately homes thread, but isn't it obvious that its because overwhelmingly women are just a bigger presence in their child's lives due to absent (emotionally and/or physically) fathers, or fathers who see their job as to 'provide' and the mothers is 'the kids' so actually, its the patriarchy driving it once again!

Glad to see that this thread hasn't descended into the usual chaos. Some of the threads on here... you would think if people use the word patriarchy they would do basic googling. No the patriarchy doesn't just hurt women, it hurts men too. Yes, you can perpetuate the patriarchy without meaning to. No, patriarchy doesn't mean 'all men are bad'. No, men don't fail to get custody because of feminism, it's the patriarchy, again - in fact basically all of the problems you are attributing to feminism are actually from the patriarchy. It's basic stuff and it makes my head hurt on some threads!