Behaviour going to shit in schools

[noblegiraffe]

Government data shows that on average schools are losing about a quarter of lesson time to poor behaviour.

"In May 2023, 76 per cent of teachers reported that misbehaviour “stopped or interrupted teaching” in at least some lessons in the past week, up from 64 per cent in June 2022."

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/schools-lose-a-quarter-of-lesson-time-to-poor-behaviour-dfe-survey/

There needs to be discussion about what is going on. As well as poor behaviour in classrooms increasing, school attendance is a massive problem, and internal truancy where kids are in school but not attending lessons is also an increasing issue.

Covid is pointed to as 'breaking the social contract between schools and families' as a reason for increasing absence. One reason for increasing absence is an increase in term-time holidays. I'm not so sure that this is a result of covid and social contracts so much as the cost of living crisis and the extortionate price of holidays out of term time. Increased sickness absence is also an issue. One wonders why the government hasn't clocked the connection between a recent pandemic and increased sickness absence. Their response is to tell parents to send children in when ill. I'm sure that will help.

But why are kids increasingly not behaving when in school?

Social media, lack of parental interest in education etc etc. No doubt they all contribute. But my theory is:

Schools are an increasingly shit experience for kids.

People keep talking about the curriculum being boring and an overloaded and dry curriculum is obviously an issue, but we've had the same curriculum for nearly a decade now. What has been getting worse, particularly in recent years?

Teacher recruitment and retention.
One thing that is massively important in schools for kids is consistency. Consistent teachers that they can build relationships with and rely on are a hugely underrated part of the school experience.

They are not getting that. Recruitment is a massive issue, so instead of having permanent teachers a lot of the time, they are getting supply. Maybe they stay for a few months, then it's someone new. If they're lucky, it's someone who knows the subject. If they're unlucky, it's a different person every day who knows nothing. If they're really unlucky (as in the case with some of my sixth form) it's no one.

Kids see cover lessons in secondary as a doss. They don't expect to have to do any work in them. I see kids head to a class with a cover teacher then the whisper to go down the corridor "Yes! We've got supply!" (Don't get me wrong there are some excellent supply teachers out there, working in increasingly challenging circumstances. But we are also in the situation of having to put a warm body, any warm body in front of a class).

It's happening more and more often. Parents are starting to complain about the amount of cover lessons their children are having. But there's nothing the school can do about it.

I've had kids come to my lesson and say 'miss, I've had cover all morning, I can't be expected to behave now'. And they're bouncing off the walls. Lack of routine, lack of consistency, lack of clear expectations and experience and they can't handle it.

And the amount of classrooms without teachers is increasing. Figures for teacher recruitment next year are grim. They were grim last year.

Expect more cover lessons.

So sorry you had those experiences Alice McK but they are quite rare! Unless you are in the room how can you be certain that the teachers are lying?

Regardless of circumstances, they still are human beings, and treating them with contempt is utterly unfathomable.

BUT, when your grandchildren’s generation are woefully shy of human beings standing in the classroom and you have class sizes of 90 and a lack of progress and qualifications don’t say it wasn’t eluded to by some teachers on this thread and others. This is the 2nd one today I’m writing about a complete lack of respect from parents to teachers, the other thread spoke about having the school by ‘the balls’

Mental health crises are increasing constantly among my profession, and I’ve been subject to a complete dressing down for no reason at all because parents don’t hold their kids accountable, I’ve been really poorly because of it a few times!

Not new here but new to the poster. She obviously is old hat at it by now I guess! Glad I was right despite her protestations! 😂😂

I'm a teacher. Have been for a long time.

And I have observed that pupils are behaving exceptionally poorly in cover lessons. I have observed that pupils are coming to me after a morning of cover lessons unable to focus as well as they have done when coming from a calm set of lessons. I have observed pupils saying 'yes! We've got supply' and telling the other kids so that they can look forward to a period of dossing. I've also gone into a lesson to do cover and had a kid walk out saying 'I ain't staying for no fucking supply', and tbf to her, staying in that lesson wouldn't have been a great academic experience and she didn't miss much as it was busywork.

Teachers know that building up relationships with pupils is key to their educational experience.

We know that behaviour is deteriorating. The government stats in my OP show this. People talk about social media, they talk about parents not backing up the school, they talk about the shit curriculum. But what I haven't see them talk about, is the fact that these kids don't actually have teachers for an increasingly large proportion of their time at school, and the impact of that.

Lack of teaching staff at DC school - is huge issue making other like behaviors worse.

But then I do get why so many leave - DD2 came home complaining she had to avoid another corridor fight and saying yet another teacher trying to break it up got punched in the face. Police weren't called and child throwing punches wasn't expelled - in fact form many previous situations worst that might happen is isolation for a few days if that.

The school doesn't care my child leaves lessons because noise is overwhelming or she being attacked verbal or physically - in fact they encourage her to do so- as she still on site getting an attendance tick - it's not why we send her though we send her to learn to get decent exam results. Same with supply and not having decent work - as long as kids are on site seems to be all they care about.

When I sent eldest to the school there was a great pastoral care system - there head girl who they were hugely proud off had been a truant in early years but with staff support had turned it all around and was on her way to stating a medical degree. All that gone - and truancy is massive issue those like DD1 with high attendance rate are in minority.

But that's the thing ....Alice's experience wasn't really "rare" was it? We have middle aged men whose parents sent them.away to expensive schools now talking about what happened to them at the hands of teachers, just as one example.

My own child who is now 25 had a junior school teacher who encouraged and joined in with bullying. As another small example.

I am sorry for the " good " teachers but these things don't happen for no reason do they?

It’s no reason to treat the good and honest teachers with contempt is it?

@TheBottomsOfMyTrousersAreRolled
That's the one bad thing about the academy.
Teaching is much better.
But all the online information has gone. There's nothing online anymore and the newsletters aren't academic. No social media now on teaching as far as I know.
That's not the teachers fault. It's the academy processes. It's a recent takeover. So probably will change in time.

The old school system had fantastic information available online.

It's hard to turn round an underfunded state school. So I'm not judging.

You seem to be judging all academies by this one academy. 80% of secondary schools are academies and there's huge variation.

Everyone seems to have SEN this day and age and its becoming an excuse.
Evert 8 out 10 new MN threads start with I/he/she has SEN.
All bad behaviour SEN i/he/she cant help it.
Teachers are fed up with hearing my child cant help it he/she is on the spectrum.
Some parents act so entitled in front of teachers and wont believe their child is the blame for anything.
Sometimes it's bad parenting/gentle parenting not SEN.
Its making life harder for the parents that really need help as they wont be believed.
TBH i dont believe half of everyone when i hear it.

Then it's time for you to retire, teachers with your outdated opinions are of no value to the teaching profession.

Im not a teacher.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Teacher or no teacher your just being snappy for no reason.

I'm sure there is. I can only talk about this one.
No idea what happens in others.
This School has improved fast in a year for pure teaching. Info online is lacking. I'm sure it will be fixed soon.

I'm certainly not judging them all by this one.
But it has helped this school a great deal.

You sound great, I'm really happy your classes are getting that education.

The survey found that unfilled teaching vacancies were also at a record high, with more than 2,300 empty posts compared with 530 a decade earlier. A further 3,300 posts were filled by supply teachers, 1,000 more than the year before.

I personally know former colleagues who WANTED to go into teaching, having left their industry through redundancy, with so much to offer after 20 years in their sector, but without teaching qualifications. They’ve both got work at independent schools, as the only options in state was as TAs, with the absolute pittance of pay for the role expected of them at secondary.

Well, the other option was to get a teaching qualification?!

WANTING to teach, with no experience in education, isn't the same thing as having a teaching qualification. The solution to the recruitment and retention situation is not to fill all the vacancies with unqualified teachers.

It only takes a year to do a PGCE, often with bursaries attached. Teaching is a lot more than subject knowledge.

This.

with so much to offer after 20 years in their sector, but without teaching qualifications

I've got loads to offer after 20 years in teaching, I think I'll get a job as a dentist. I don't have any qualifications in dentistry but I've been to the dentist and had fillings and stuff. They should totally give me a dentist job, on a high salary to recognise my 20 years in teaching.

No. You are not seeing the whole picture.
There are parents that think SEN mean that their child Is exempt from consequences. That is not the case, if reasonable adjustments are in place all children are subject to the rules.

In the real world nobody is going to excuse a crime because the perpetrator had ADHD or is on the autism spectrum.

Can you imagine, "I murdered that person and people watched me do it, but I have special needs so rules don't apply to me."

Or is being law-abiding going to be outdated when this children grow up?

I think people with practical skills can work in FE and study for a teaching qualification at the same time.
Eg bricklaying.
Suggesting unqualified people go into schools is insane

I'm surprised Biology has done so well in that data set, though how many will leave when they are made to teach the other sciences instead? My school is lucky in that we still have specialists in all 3 subjects, but in the past I have had to teach Triple Science in all 3 areas despite being qualified in only one. Yes, there is overlap, but they are completely different subjects with different skillsets required. GIve me my subject specialism and the kids learn well, behave well and achieve highly.

Teaching outside of specialisms has become the norm, unless you teach Maths (and even then some are drafted into computing). Humanities are seen as one subject, so history, RE and geography are often taught by the same people, MfL teachers are expected to teach more than one language to at least KS3, PE teachers are often drafted into Science, DT appears to have no specialists despite, again, so many different sub-disciplines and I don't know many English teachers that don't also teach PSHE/ Health and social care or psychology.

That makes for a shite learning experience. My kids know that Biology is not my passion or skillset; I am a physicist and they will get far more hinterland, far more interesting immersion into my specialism than when I have to teach any of the other two subjects. I enjoy years in which my timetable consists of mainly Biology and Chemistry far less than when I can teach what I actually trained in, and as a result children behave less well because they can sense this. I've known a few colleagues leave over having to teach far too much outside their specialism.

I've also been drafted into the occasional MfL cover. Lessons to be delivered entirely in a language I don't speak. I can neither answer the kids' questions, nor can I check their work or help them see errors. It's a waste of everyone's time.

Kids see this mess and it doesn't exactly inspire the next generation of teachers.

My school has had to close to certain year groups on the odd occasion now because we lack teachers. The cracks are starting to be far too deep to be plastered over.

Do you know why this is being highlighted? Because there are far fewer places in SEN schools now. Many have been closed. It's cheaper to keep children in mainstream provision, even if it's unsuitable.

Because ND/SEN children can't cope in today's school environments. I am autistic and adhd and I coped well in school in the 70s because they were far stricter and had a stable workforce and proper rules. Troublemakers were punished properly and held to account.

My autistic ds2 was bullied so badly that he had to keep changing school. He only lasted eight weeks in Year 7 before having to be withdrawn for his own safety. He then went to online school, which we had to pay for. He starts at a top university this autumn.

The shit behaviour is flushing all the ND/SEN kids out, this is why there seems to be more of them.

I think you misinterpreted my comment- there’s so many vacancies and state system crying out for teachers and staff in schools, both would have taken TA posts but for the pay and conditions. I’m not suggesting they walk into teaching, unqualified, but more there should be some way of recruiting and then retaining those with life experience too, to make up the gaps in staff numbers and lessons that can’t be covered. They’re getting paid well in the independent sector and don’t teach exam subjects.

I can't say that's a good recommendation for the private sector, to hire people to teach who aren't good enough to teach exam subjects.