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Ukrainian house guest doesn't want to leave!

531 replies

reallyneedmoresleep · 20/04/2024 13:59

We've had a Ukrainian house guest for the last six months via the Homes for Ukraine scheme. When she came to live with us, we said it would be for a six month period and at the last welfare check we confirmed that she would need to move out by mid-May.
She doesn't want to leave. She has asked several times if she can stay, we have said no. She says our house is much nicer than where she can afford to move to.

I have visited estate agents with her who advise that to rent privately, she either needs a guarantor (we are not prepared to do this) or to pay six month's rent plus the deposit up front. She cannot afford this.

What do we do?

I know the situation in Ukraine is appallling and I am writing from a position of immense priveledge but we have found it really difficult having someone else in our home. She is not an easy person to be around, does not work, has refused all offers to be taken to support groups and frequently just hangs around us when we are in the house when we are trying to work or just to chill. Our son is home from uni in a couple of weeks and we need the room back.

There has been radio silence from the council Homes for Ukraine scheme.
How can I help her to move on?

OP posts:
WinterMorn · 22/04/2024 10:40

You have just done it again! It’s your generalising that’s inaccurate! The only person without a clue is you. Re-read your last post.

Februaryfeels · 22/04/2024 10:43

Icehockeyflowers · 22/04/2024 09:54

It’s quite obvious from this entire thread that a lot of people have a huge problem with Ukrainians (or “them”, by your choice of words) coming to the UK

Why do you suppose that is?

Can you maybe explain why?

Icehockeyflowers · 22/04/2024 10:59

Februaryfeels · 22/04/2024 10:43

Can you maybe explain why?

Read the thread.

Icehockeyflowers · 22/04/2024 11:00

WinterMorn · 22/04/2024 10:40

You have just done it again! It’s your generalising that’s inaccurate! The only person without a clue is you. Re-read your last post.

I can see why. It’s all within this thread.

You might not like it or agree but posters have said why.

WinterMorn · 22/04/2024 11:07

Yes, every comment on this thread, every third hand hearsay story and every bit of sensationalism must be true.

Icehockeyflowers · 22/04/2024 11:27

WinterMorn · 22/04/2024 11:07

Yes, every comment on this thread, every third hand hearsay story and every bit of sensationalism must be true.

Or according to you, must ALL be false?

WinterMorn · 22/04/2024 11:30

Not at all, I completely understand that some hosts will have been taken advantage of. What I object to is the amount of second of third hand stories and characterisation of ALL Ukrainians as the same…..you know, like YOU said.

Icehockeyflowers · 22/04/2024 11:32

Ok so people have been taken advantage of?
All Ukrainians are not genuine refugees?

Agree?

User884721 · 22/04/2024 11:36

We support 2 Ukrainian families who live in a house share nearby.

The mums have improved their English, work 2 part time hospitality jobs each, 18yr old dd has 2 part time jobs. They work hard, they try hard. They are separated from their husbands and wider family.

One family travels home to Kyiv 3 times a year to spend time with their husband and dad. They have a tough journey to get there and back, they are anxious the whole time they are there, but they want to be together as a family and men are not allowed to leave. What are they supposed to do?

The other family have lost their home in Kyiv to a random bomb and their dad and husband has been conscripted to the army now. So they have no home and don't know when they will see or speak to him next.

They are not in the UK for an easy life.

But all human beings are different. Some will take the piss and some will try incredibly hard.

I am hugely sympathetic to anyone who is struggling with people still living in their homes. We were lucky that our guys were keen to be independent.

WinterMorn · 22/04/2024 11:37

Icehockeyflowers · 22/04/2024 11:32

Ok so people have been taken advantage of?
All Ukrainians are not genuine refugees?

Agree?

No, I don’t agree. What don’t you try introducing the word ‘some’ into your writings, then you might have a little more success in the points you are clumsily trying to make.

Icehockeyflowers · 22/04/2024 11:53

WinterMorn · 22/04/2024 11:37

No, I don’t agree. What don’t you try introducing the word ‘some’ into your writings, then you might have a little more success in the points you are clumsily trying to make.

Because I’m scanning and replying quickly in work.
You agree then that ‘some’ Ukrainians are taking advantage of people?
You agree that ‘’some Ukrainians are not genuine refugees?

Yes or No?

Februaryfeels · 22/04/2024 12:00

@Icehockeyflowers I have read the thread, thank you. You had asked if poster wondered why? I was asking you why.

I see some anecdotal stories and some (thankfully now deleted) racist and xenophobic comments)

I'm sorry the HFU scheme hasn't worked for some people.

Where I live, whole communities have taken on Ukrainian refugees and they are largely successful and contributing to the community. They would all much rather be at home though

I can't get a dentist within 60 miles so if I needed dental treatment then I would go back to Ukraine. However those that do have hard and stressful journeys and I wouldn't wish what the russians are doing onto my worst enemy

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 22/04/2024 12:12

Be fair, WinterMorn. The sentence "All Ukrainians are not genuine refugees" is totally ambiguous: it could be read as meaning "Not all Ukrainians are genuine refugees" or it could be read as meaning "No Ukrainians are genuine refugees".

I would agree that the first is entirely possible; the second is horsefeathers.

But I have to say, if I were looking for somewhere to set up a new life and have it cushy, as some people on this thread seem to think anyone on the run from a war – in which random civilians have been tortured to death, shot for existing on the wrong bit of a road, or bombed, in which people's children have been kidnapped and taken to another country with a view to destroying their memory of any life before that time – must be doing, I probably would not choose this country, which as someone suggested upthread isn't much of a place these days, and seems to be full of credulous xenophobes.

(I have just tried the experiment of internet-searching for "Ukraine botox". No hits. There's one about Putin probably having to stop having treatments because of sanctions, but nothing about Ukrainians going back to Ukraine to get it. File under "chem trails".)

WinterMorn · 22/04/2024 12:14

@Icehockeyflowers there really is no talking to you, so I would refer you to FebruaryFeels post at 1200, where a good response has been given.

blueandsad · 22/04/2024 12:14

At last ! AskingQuestions . . . . . . A lovely , supremely intelligent and compassionate , human on Mn

Icehockeyflowers · 22/04/2024 12:17

WinterMorn · 22/04/2024 12:14

@Icehockeyflowers there really is no talking to you, so I would refer you to FebruaryFeels post at 1200, where a good response has been given.

You won’t reply because you can’t disagree. That is fine. We both know the truth then.

blueandsad · 22/04/2024 12:20

There is nothing cushy about escaping war and coming to the UK , with our obsessively matrialistic society , racist and non-communal .... As a Ukrainian or any other displaced person. Estimates are that 60-70 % of Ukrainians there and here are suffering PTSD or depression ... The Ukrainians I know from Kharkiv and Lviv all on anti-depressants . . . . they cope somehow , but mostly hide their trauma and vulnerabliity .

WinterMorn · 22/04/2024 12:20

Icehockeyflowers · 22/04/2024 12:17

You won’t reply because you can’t disagree. That is fine. We both know the truth then.

I have replied, hence your response. Anyway, if that’s how you have decided to interpret it, crack on! We are never going to agree, and quite frankly, you don’t sound like my sort of person anyway.

Icehockeyflowers · 22/04/2024 12:32

WinterMorn · 22/04/2024 12:20

I have replied, hence your response. Anyway, if that’s how you have decided to interpret it, crack on! We are never going to agree, and quite frankly, you don’t sound like my sort of person anyway.

Well do feel free to crack on and answer this whenever you want. It will take you the time it takes to type two or three letters…. .

You agree then that ‘some’ Ukrainians are taking advantage of people?
You agree that ‘’some Ukrainians are not genuine refugees?
Yes or No?

WinterMorn · 22/04/2024 12:37

Here’s three letters for you…..BYE 🙂

Icehockeyflowers · 22/04/2024 12:40

WinterMorn · 22/04/2024 12:37

Here’s three letters for you…..BYE 🙂

At least you aren’t writing that it isn’t true. Thank you.

jolota · 22/04/2024 13:12

I'm so sorry that you're stuck in this loop.
We went through a similar situation last year and it was extremely stressful for us as a family.
We had all the same concerns, she said that she wanted a job but only a specific type so wouldn't even entertain retail/service industry. She only wanted something in 'business' as she had a degree (that she'd never used). She had money though as she was teaching English online. Very very clingy with us, asking to come on our date night dinner out! Wasn't interested in the meet up groups with other Ukranians etc. Really excessively nice to us, but showed no thanks or niceties to a local volunteer who drove her a 3 hour round trip to sort out her visa when we weren't able to take the time off work.
Very reluctant to even apply for jobs as we had an 'in' with a local company so she just wanted to be allowed to work there and stay with us indefinitely. She actually did a trial at the company and was deemed to be not a good fit. (Didn't take feedback well at all to the point that she did the work wrong repeatedly because she refused to accept when people told her she'd made a mistake; overly familiar with people, asking lots of personal details to the point it made them uncomfortable)
Apparently desperate to get married but didn't want to leave our very small town even when we explained unlikely to meet anyone in the area.
It nearly tore us apart as a family, the stress, the guilt. It went on quite a bit longer than the 6 months and the council were useless, they had no plan in place for how she could move out. They hoped that we'd be willing to house her longer, until she was ready to leave! She'd made it clear she didn't want to!

We were very lucky, that she was also from a town close to the border so she actually knew many people who'd also come to the UK as refugees. She mentioned in passing that a group of them were living together and that a space had opened up. We jumped on it and pushed hard to get her to take that space. I honestly don't know what we would have done if it hadn't worked out. We were at breaking point.
We went into it with the best intentions to help someone in need and really did so much to try and make her feel welcome and accepted, perhaps too much in the end. It was really hard in the end to determine if she was a good person or not as I understand how afraid and confusing the situation must be but I also felt she took advantage and didn't do really anything to help herself be prepared for the deadline to move out.
I have a huge amount of sympathy for you, as I don't think there is any easy way to resolve this type of situation. I can only recommend trying to get in contact with any Ukrainian support network in your area and see if anyone has space for her. Make it clear that she needs to take any room she can get because you don't have space for her any longer and that it was for 6 months only. Tell the council that she will be homeless at the 6 month mark and see if that gets them to act at all.

RedToothBrush · 22/04/2024 14:18

Councils will push back because they don't want to take on more Ukranians even though they have an obligation to.

This really puts hosts in a difficult position - these are people who accepted people into their homes to give aid - the idea of making someone homeless often goes against pretty much everything they value.

Councils won't give help because it suits their interests to phob you off.

You have to tell the council this is when it will end, give them a date and not budge simply because legal obligations don't kick in until the point a guest is actually made homeless. Its cold and rather heartless for all concerned.

The Guilt for hosts is a common theme as a result. And tbh, I think this puts some more vulnerable hosts at risk.

But hosts take on guests for a time limited amount and this has always been the understanding Brits have had. I don't think this is so well understood by Ukrainians. I know a lot of hosts really did go above and beyond and were left bewildered by guests who didn't try to help themselves because hosts expected guests would 'just get out with it'. It wasn't about wanting their guests to be grateful, it was about wanting guests to take responsibility for themselves. Hosts themselves, by their self selecting nature, tended to be people with a 'can do, lets get involved' attitude with many active volunteer types more broadly in life and when matched with someone who didn't have that get up and go to be involved in the community, there was a lot of frustration. It was a cultural difference - not one based on where you live but simply attitude to life more generally and one that we have in this country.

When I was talking to a lot of hosts, the comparison was like taking on extra children, but who were adults. That in itself often led to issues because in pandering to it, guests became more dependent and expected more or in trying to force the issue it led to conflict arising.

There's two families I know who have had particularly good placements and got on well with their families but in both cases despite the host making the point for months that the guests needed to save and look for their own accomodation, both resisted it strongly putting a massive stress on the relationship between guest and host. In both cases, the families stayed over a year with their hosts rather than the six months that both hosts were adament about when I spoke to them at the start. That was a good placement.

To a degree there is a cultural issue here, where if we 'gently suggest' as Brits we are telling someone they need to do something Ukrainians culturally don't pick up on the social cue. It has to be a very blunt, you MUST move out or its understood as optional. Brits feel VERY uncomfortable doing it.

So there are definitely particular issues about asking a guest to move on.

No host should feel guilty about it. Their job has been to give an opportunity, tell their guest what the terms and length of stay are and thats it. Most hosts will do a lot more than that. Ultimately a guest - regardless of whether they are traumatised or not, regardless of whether they are a 'genuine' refugee or an economic migrant or a benefit seeker is an adult and they remain responsible for themselves. Hosts are not responsible for them no matter how much they care. Infantilising refugees doesn't help with their independence. Its not in their interests long term. Hosts just don't have the capacity to care for adults in this way anyway (even with the best will in the world). Nor should they be expected to.

MsRosley · 22/04/2024 14:23

RedToothBrush · 22/04/2024 14:18

Councils will push back because they don't want to take on more Ukranians even though they have an obligation to.

This really puts hosts in a difficult position - these are people who accepted people into their homes to give aid - the idea of making someone homeless often goes against pretty much everything they value.

Councils won't give help because it suits their interests to phob you off.

You have to tell the council this is when it will end, give them a date and not budge simply because legal obligations don't kick in until the point a guest is actually made homeless. Its cold and rather heartless for all concerned.

The Guilt for hosts is a common theme as a result. And tbh, I think this puts some more vulnerable hosts at risk.

But hosts take on guests for a time limited amount and this has always been the understanding Brits have had. I don't think this is so well understood by Ukrainians. I know a lot of hosts really did go above and beyond and were left bewildered by guests who didn't try to help themselves because hosts expected guests would 'just get out with it'. It wasn't about wanting their guests to be grateful, it was about wanting guests to take responsibility for themselves. Hosts themselves, by their self selecting nature, tended to be people with a 'can do, lets get involved' attitude with many active volunteer types more broadly in life and when matched with someone who didn't have that get up and go to be involved in the community, there was a lot of frustration. It was a cultural difference - not one based on where you live but simply attitude to life more generally and one that we have in this country.

When I was talking to a lot of hosts, the comparison was like taking on extra children, but who were adults. That in itself often led to issues because in pandering to it, guests became more dependent and expected more or in trying to force the issue it led to conflict arising.

There's two families I know who have had particularly good placements and got on well with their families but in both cases despite the host making the point for months that the guests needed to save and look for their own accomodation, both resisted it strongly putting a massive stress on the relationship between guest and host. In both cases, the families stayed over a year with their hosts rather than the six months that both hosts were adament about when I spoke to them at the start. That was a good placement.

To a degree there is a cultural issue here, where if we 'gently suggest' as Brits we are telling someone they need to do something Ukrainians culturally don't pick up on the social cue. It has to be a very blunt, you MUST move out or its understood as optional. Brits feel VERY uncomfortable doing it.

So there are definitely particular issues about asking a guest to move on.

No host should feel guilty about it. Their job has been to give an opportunity, tell their guest what the terms and length of stay are and thats it. Most hosts will do a lot more than that. Ultimately a guest - regardless of whether they are traumatised or not, regardless of whether they are a 'genuine' refugee or an economic migrant or a benefit seeker is an adult and they remain responsible for themselves. Hosts are not responsible for them no matter how much they care. Infantilising refugees doesn't help with their independence. Its not in their interests long term. Hosts just don't have the capacity to care for adults in this way anyway (even with the best will in the world). Nor should they be expected to.

Excellent post. I think you're spot on about other cultures not picking up on the British tendency to understatement. We all know when someone says to us 'I'm a little upset that..' what they actually mean is they're bloody fuming. We're almost allergic to saying what we mean, and rely on people to understand the subtext of our words.

MsRosley · 22/04/2024 14:29

I probably would not choose this country, which as someone suggested upthread isn't much of a place these days, and seems to be full of credulous xenophobes.

Wow. Just wow.

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