Taking children of 5 and under to places they won't enjoy

[Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain]

DB and SIL have a 5 (almost 6) year old DS and a 5 month old. SIL's DP's live at the other end of the country to her so she sees them in the holidays and some weekends.

During these holidays, the DP's sometimes go away with DB, SIL and the DC but usually to cultural places, and on holidays which are often cultural. The cultual places are often for SIL and her DP's who like this a lot. Their DS often gets bored though he does like the odd museum/stately home etc. His grandmother will often complain about DS's behaviour when he's at the cultural places (he behaves very well though generally there). They sometimes but don't often factor in playtime at parks. He'd be much happier with his other grandparents (my DP's) where they take him to playparks and child friendly museums etc or with his other cousins of a similar age where they do lots of outdoor activities.

Do you think it's unfair to drag a young child around to these places when it's obvious they don't enjoy it and get bored?

Completely agree.

See my latest post.

My DM is one of those mothers who cares a lot about her DC, me included and does I admit interfere (she'd never admit she does), I can't change her and her friends have tried to have words with her in the past but it all falls on deaf ears. The irony is that before she retired in her mid-late 50s maybe 60 due to medical issues, she didn't seem nearly so much (I mean hardly at all!) concerned about both of us and our lives! She couldn't ring us every day for one as mobile phones weren't so much of a thing then and she was driving to work every morning and couldn't ring once in work as she was a teacher.

Grandparents are always (well usually - at least in my case and people around me) a little bit softer than parents. Too soft sometimes! My mum lets my daughter do way more than she would have allowed us to do when we were kids (e.g. she lets her have the food she wants and will only take her somewhere if there will be other children there.

Guess what, grandparents get to give their grandchildren back and get on with other tasks that you wouldn’t drag your child too.

As a parent you are pretty much with your children 24/7 (except for work and probably the odd event) - so when we choose to bring them on holiday we have to plan things that we want to do, things for the kids and things for the whole family. We won’t have a life and will probably end up with spoilt children if we do absolutely everything their way.

Last year we went abroad and took my 11 year old to a museum - she hated it! I’ve taken her to museums since she was about 4 years old. Sometimes she’s loved it, most of the times she’s hated the exhibtion part - but these are all memories and days out. There is anlways a child friendly element we stop at for her. And in the long run she actually prefers it when we are out as when we stay at home she will ask me “are we doing anything today”.

Wow…you’ve shown your true colours here.

I asked whether you had kids because I wondered why you were so invested in (and critical of) the things your nephew did when he wasn’t with you. I have no idea what my nephews and nieces get up to with their grandparents on the other side and have literally never discussed it with my mother. I’d be disgusted and perplexed if I thought my SILs and MIL spent their time discussing my parenting, holiday choices, and stuff to do with my parents.

Of course you’re allowed
to have an opinion on whatever you like, but most people have a little self awareness when criticising something they have no direct experience of. I’d make the same point in relation to your negative comments about the grandmother’s approach to being a carer of a paraplegic husband. It’s really easy to criticise from the outside and/or to form hardline views that don’t take account of the nuance of the situation.

I don’t think the fact I pointed these things out makes me smug or merits the weird threat at the end of your post. Loads of other posters have said the same thing.

If you recall correctly yesterday you and a few other posters were going pretty hard on attacking me. And naturally, I defended myself. A bit like a rat does when it's cornered, it hisses and bites. That's me. I'm not going to apologise for that at all.

I also apologised yesterday for upsetting people and if I was rude, that included to you.

I've addressed in pps why I've been this way with my DM about my nephew and there have been about two posters here who've posted and got me. That doesn't mean that everyone is on wrong, not by any means. I like to think I can take comments on board and learn from my, I won't call them mistakes, but learn from what I say and think.

But you do come across as a bit smug and condescending, you may want to work on that and become more self aware. Yoga and meditation is great for that, I practised it for 7-8 years and have recently restarted it. Namaste.

Interesting what you say about grandparents. My own DM loves a museum with her grandson (despite the way it comes across here) and we're very lucky to have the Horniman here in SE London and Crystal Palace dinosaurs on our doorstep too as well as Beckenham Place Park and numerous other places.

I think I was lucky as a child as we did do a lot of museums, castles etc. Maybe they were interesting after all.

Yes, my DM tells me a wooden horse her dad made for her, when he showed it to her as an adult she was surprised because it had looked huge to her as a child!

We haven't been to the new Bethnal Museum, it's a pity it's been totally modernised and stripped of all the old parts. DB has been there.

That was one of the exciting parts of either the Science Museum or the National Geographic Museum, we would go all around the museum and at the very end in a sort of basement area was the golden ball, which we'd all try and touch, I think the museum staff put it there on purpose to entice children there:

[[https://www.google.com/imgres?q=gold%20ball%20science%20museum%20london&imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fpocketbookuk.files.wordpress.com%2F2018%2F04%2Fsciencemuseum11disappearinggoldenball.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fpocketbookuk.wordpress.com%2F2018%2F04%2F17%2Fwho-remembers-the-childrens-gallery-at-the-science-museum-in-london%2F&docid=5r7y9Gd1n1jtZM&tbnid=wbV2BZb1fEtcDM&vet=12ahUKEwiT79fr27KFAxUEWUEAHcRoA4kQM3oECBwQAA..i&w=685&h=843&hcb=2&ved=2ahUKEwiT79fr27KFAxUEWUEAHcRoA4kQM3oECBwQAA

I've got a photo of me with puppets somewhere, I'm not sure if it's a museum in London but one was a huge wooden bear with sticks to move it.

I do recall Pollocks Toy Museum, in fact I walked into it last year when I worked near Goodge Street but it appears to be temporarily closed now.

There was another amazing museum with a great cafe called The Theatre Museum, in Covent Garden which sadly closed, then moved to V&A but from their wiki it seems funding has cut for that department's staff and in 2021 faced discontinuation under a major V&A restructuring plan.

We also used to visit the V&A a lot with my grandad who'd take his Chinese and Japanese vases and pots to be looked at.

The Jewish Museum in it's old location was another I recall, as I went there aged 11 or 12 to do a project on Judaism and spoke to a lovely old curator/volunteer there who was really interesting and explained lots of things to me.

I didn’t go hard on attacking you at all. Feel
free to re-read my posts and let me know which bits you object to.

It’s not nice being told you’re wrong, but that doesn’t make it ok to respond with abuse, whether you identify as a rat or not.

At no point have I called you names, made any passive aggressive threats or indeed faux concerned recommendations.

My genuine recommendation would be to be nice to your SIL and quit bitching about her if you want to maintain a relationship with her son.

The children are lucky to have two sets of grandparents who want to spend time taking them to see different things and not sitting home in front of a tv. When they look back they will remember the time spent with family, not the activity. Why does this bother you so much? They aren't your children?

Yeah yeah yeah yeah.

I've heard all the comments now I don't need to answer to anyone. Why are you coming on obvs not having read all the answers and picking at me, again? I may even get this thread deleted due to privacy issues.

Tone of your posts and the way you came for me again and again... if you can't see that then that's your issue not mine.

I really CBA to go through all your posts and which bits I object to. I know exactly when a person is being smug and condescending too.

I actually do feel justified in coming for people when it's someone like you who obvs thinks their opinion is the only one, the right one. I've told you I apologised and said I was wrong.

Also, not that this is an excuse, me and DB were yesterday dealing with the sudden unexpected death of a man who was like a surrogate father to DB and a close family friend and ex-NDN to me. Him and his wife helped our family and me and DB out a lot and in personal ways over the years. It really messed with both our heads.

I don't know where you get off in saying that I'm not nice to my SIL. I have always, always been nice to her. We do get on very well on a day to day basis. There was one time a few years ago when we fell out because she treated me appallingly, with no/little cause to do so. She had to apologise to me. I also do not bitch about SIL to anyone. Me and DM have conversations about it, not bitching. Here I've tried to raise this and I know now, I will never ever do this again here, it's not worth the hassle especially as the vast majority of responses don't see it from my perspective at all and the ones who 'do', they get it and me and DM because they've probably been in a similar situation. I mentioned this because I care, strangely enough. If I didn't care I wouldn't bother posting this at all. People I don't like or am indifferent to, whether family or not, I don't bother with them. I'm not rude if I have to see them but equally I just don't bother with them. I'm not one for doing fake niceness or being two faced, that's not me at all. I'd rather as I've done here, say it like it is and if you don't like it, tell me, and if you're that bothered and you want to work through it and I do, then we'll do that. By using 'you' I mean SIL not you, @Compsearch.

I really wish here that what most of the posters who have criticised me (and I can take criticism) would realise, is that your opinions or what you say don't matter to me, not one bit. I'll read them, of course I will. I might even take some on board and self reflect. But someone who comes for me again and again and doesn't accept an apology, I'll just be like 'whatever, this person/what they say does not matter to me in the slightest'. Some of the assumptions made about me, my DM, SIL, DB have actually staggered me when you know little or nothing about our lives or situations have really shocked me, and I hope I don't come across this way, when I answer posts, I try to do so in a measured way and see both sides to a story. I wish I had posted it on AIBU, because at least there, you do get the vipers coming out and hissing, they don't hide it at all.

I'm not here to make friends, I don't do fake stuff. But I do stand up for myself. Years of being walked over has made me stand up for myself now and I've found my voice. If you don't like it, scroll on by my post.

I didn't think there was an obligation to read other replies before posting and don't see how anything I said amounts to a privacy issue! I just wondered if there was a reason it was on your mind, eg the kids had confided in you.

I was actually speaking from personal experience.. when I was younger I got dragged lots of places that weren't of interest to me, now.. many years later, they are fond memories of time spent with family who aren't around any more.

@Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain I replied to your posts, that’s not coming for you. If you didn’t want responses, why did you post?

I also didn’t actually say you weren’t nice to your SIL. But it’s not particularly nice to discuss her parenting and her parents in a critical way with your mum, as you seem to do frequently. You might not call it bitching but I don’t think she would be happy to hear about it, never mind all the awful things you posted on here about her mother.

If I got wind of my SIL talking about me and my family like that I’d make sure she never got near my children again.

I do not do this frequently with my DM.

How dare you criticise me and say things like SIL letting me near her children again? Don't you realise that this is what people do, especially in families, have one off comments or short convos where they can discuss things in safe spaces whilst realising that this wouldn't go outside their inner circle? That's part of family life. Me and DM certainly do not spend our time when we meet up ripping to pieces SIL and her family and what they do, despite what you assume.

I'm really getting angry again now, which is something I don't want to do. I didn't mind responses and actually apart from one day when I got angry as I was also upset to do with something else I've taken it all on the chin.

I will not respond to you again. It's getting really tiring for me debating with you.

You are supposed to read the whole thread before replying to it. Unless you are new to MN?

Yes my nephew has confided in me about this, or made comments, much as a nearly 6 year old can do as their maturity level isn't high yet though they do have complex emotions too. It's also his reaction to how I see how interact and behave with other kids, he's very much a people person and loves playing with other kids and making new friends. He was really happily doing a jigsaw (with monsters on it) that his DM bought for him yesterday at DM's house with us all there and I was helping him along with a family friend of DM.

I didn't mean re you as a privacy issue, this is just in general. In fact, I hope SIL hasn't seen this thread or had it drawn to her attention, she looked at me a bit funny yesterday but this could've been lack of sleep from a teething 5 month old with a cough.

Yes this 🙄 your parents are superior grandparents OP here’s your medal 🏅

it’s fine for adults to do things they like and get fulfilment from too. Children will def be learning some things from these cultural experiences. However I will agree with other posters that these things aren’t fun when your children are playing up. So their kids can’t be misbehaving that badly otherwise they wouldn’t want to take them anyway.

On what world are you “supposed to read the whole thread”? I’ve been on Mumsnet for well over a decade and this “rule” has never been expressed by the moderators. Some threads are twenty plus pages - who has got time for that all in one go if they are late to the conversation?

OP you just seem to be being abusive for the sake of it now. I’d just walk away from Mumsnet if you don’t want to hear their replies.

It's not a rule, it's a courtesy.

Or you could just cancel the cheque......

Sorry what courtesy? So many times have I seen “not read the whole thread”. It’s a luxury for those with the time to do it, so if luxury equals courtesy then so be it. Happy for you to go along with your self imposed rules if you want though.

Courtesy to every other poster.

If you cannot RTFT, then at least first page, last couple of pages and posts by OP.

Because threads move on and meander

Cancel the cheque is the obvious funny example of a thread being ceaselessly derailed by those who clearly hadn't read anything beyond the title and were self-centred enough not to even think that an obvious point might just have already been aired ad nauseam.

There are other examples where it's not remotely funny. The late great TwitterQueen's thread about her ovarian cancer diagnosis being the one that sticks in mind (the bloating not being middle aged spread, but still people plopped on with dietary advice even when she was in hospital test results)

It's not a luxury and it's not a rule. It's a mindset

It’s not really anything to do with you how they choose to spend time with their grandchildren. As long as they aren’t neglecting them or hurting them! Stay out of it and let them enjoy their time with their grandchildren!

Why do you care so much, they aren’t your children. Unless of course DB is actually your husband so it’s your children rather than niece/nephew