DD(13) saying she doesn’t want to come on holiday with us next week

[PinkCamellia]

I posted earlier about an upcoming trip to Iceland but thought this warranted a separate post. I don’t normally make a fuss of my birthday but as it’s my 40th and it’s been a really difficult few years, I’ve booked for me and teen/young adult DC to go for four days to Iceland.

At the time I booked, DD wanted us to go to a particular European country and was upset with me for choosing Iceland. Since then, she periodically says she doesn’t want to come and has even cried at the thought of coming. She says she doesn’t want to do any of the activities I’m planning and there’s nothing she wants to do there. I’ve tried selling it to her that we’ll eat nice food, so interesting things, be in beautiful scenery but she says she doesn’t care about any of that.

I’m so worried about her at the moment. Since hitting 13, things have unraveled for her. She’s completely stopped attending school and does nothing except play on her computer with her friends. She has no interests except gaming and baking and she’s put on a lot of weight in a short time. I feel like she must be depressed but she says she’s not. I think she might be ASD and we are awaiting an assessment.

What do I do? It won’t be the same without her and I worry she will regret not coming but equally the prospect of dragging her round or being stuck in the hotel with her doesn’t feel great either. Feeling really stressed and sad that my birthday won’t be what I hoped. And of course so worried about DD 😔

I would say

You can stay with grandparents but no phone, no gaming and no internet

I bet she soon changes her mind !!

I know people are saying "only 13, will have to tag along".
This is also the age we tend to remember the most from, not sure why.
If ASD, I really wouldn't force her, OP.
It is tough, I get it.
Is your child willing to talk to you "as an adult",
if she wants to make her own decision?

i’d let her stay behind, start getting the warm weather gear for the others and look forward to your trip. If she comes she comes but she can’t decide last minute if she doesn’t have the cold weather equipment. You’ll love Iceland - it’s amazing

What do I do? It won’t be the same without her and I worry she will regret not coming but equally the prospect of dragging her round or being stuck in the hotel with her doesn’t feel great either. Feeling really stressed and sad that my birthday won’t be what I hoped. And of course so worried about DD 😔

Leave her with your parents. If she regrets not coming later, so be it. She can regret it.

She said she didn't want to come in the first place and she still doesn't want to come.

You are likely to spoil the trip for the other members of the family by taking her when she's made it so very clear she does not want to come.

This. ^
There's been some very harsh and poor advice here from people who have no idea about the reality of parenting children with autism.

I can only imagine all the things she will likely struggle with on this holiday because it will be so different from her reality.

@PinkCamellia I would let her stay home and be very reassuring about it. She is likely to feel awful, guilty, sad she missed out, possibly punishing herself for not being able to go.

Absolutely don't punish her for not being able to go on a holiday as others have suggested.

I wonder if it would be better to have this thread moved out of chat, isn't there an SEN section?

I've read all of OPs posts and I can't see references anywhere to DGPs for the DD to stay at, from what I have read an older adult DD will need to not go on the trip to stay with her if she doesn't come.

At this stage it sounds like her not coming is the least worst outcome. You deserve to enjoy your trip and I believe Iceland is expensive so dragging DD there when she doesn't want to go would be costly in so many ways.NB I am only saying this because of the ND possibility, you know your DD best and this seems like more than teenage stubbornness.

Yes there is a SEN section and it doesn't appear in Active for obvious reasons.

The down side is not a lot of people post there as we are busy dealing with our time consuming kids and their endless paperwork!

@PinkCamellia my Stepson sounds a lot like your DD. Very bright, undiagnosed ND at that age. He was also incredibly manipulative because of his gaming addiction. Absolutely the worst thing his mother allowed was to disregard the advice of everyone - his Dad, the counsellors, teachers etc regarding gaming. Being ND does not mean a free pass on family life, routine, fresh air/exercise etc but he gradually became withdrawn from reality as it was easier to just give in from his mother’s pov. I am absolutely not mum-blaming here, but watching his dad’s despair at knowing he was powerless to help was heart-breaking because he obviously wanted to be where he was allowed to game all day. Then of course, school refusal started and pretty much after the age of 15, he stopped going. So did attendance on family holidays, seeing real-life friends etc. his twitter account at the time was a work of fiction - takes if poverty and longing to go to places he’d just been invited to go on holiday to - it was clear he had become disassociated with reality and was playing some sort of misery version of ‘keeping up with the jones’. Unfettered access to gaming when you are at your most susceptible is like being addicted to gambling, drugs or any other vice - addicts are adept at manipulating those who care the most. Unfortunately you have an uphill battle on your hands here trying to close the door after the horse has bolted. You have absolutely no idea what your DD is doing or online or with whom - and they are highly unlikely to be real ‘friends’. There are some gamers out there who are adept at creating an obligation to vulnerable kids to stay and play - could your DD be under pressure to keep playing the games?

I don’t think it is fair for grandparents to have to sort this whilst you are on holiday, but you have to address the gaming addiction at some point to bring her back to reality. My stepson ended up trying to transition as he sought answers to his dissatisfaction and other gamers in line told him changing sex would be the answer to his problems (spoiler alert, it didn’t) with life. Turns out, being given everything and being allowed to do whatever you want doesn’t make you happy either. He freely admits he wanted someone to step in but other than his Dad, no one did. You need to step in and get a strategy to direct your DD’s interests elsewhere. And for the posters who inevitably want to say ‘gaming is normal, it’s done my kid no harm’ you’re unlikely to be dealing with addiction.

Take time away to enjoy your birthday but please, get your DD some help before the next few years of her life slip away.

I've read all of OPs posts and I can't see references anywhere to DGPs for the DD to stay at, from what I have read an older adult DD will need to not go on the trip to stay with her if she doesn't come.

Then you missed it because it's in her second post.

The older sibling sailing they will stay with the dd in Iceland so the OP can do things she wants to do with her other child in Iceland.

Oh sorry I did miss that, thanks for pointing it out.
i think just leave DD with DGPs then.

given the serious problems DD is having, impacting on the family, her strong negative views about the holiday, would let her stay with the GPs.

Not ideal, and GPs might find it hard work and/or express their opinions about DD and your parenting, but probably better than the holiday being affected for everyone.

I found Iceland scenery ‘other worldly’ and unsettling, amazing geography but not ‘beautiful’ or relaxing for all. It’s very expensive so your promises to DD on food might be hard to deliver on!

The answer to ESBA is to not make home awful and an unsafe place. That is counterproductive.
ASD in girls is completely different to boys. Often leads to severe anxiety.

www.focus-education.co.uk/blog/anxiety-school-fire-2/#:~:text=It's%20“School%20on%20Fire”.,know%20that%20smoke%20is%20dangerous.

Mumsnet is terrible for thinking this is a choice. It really isn't and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

It really is an abelist thread and people are so ignorant they can't see it.

@PinkCamellia - really sorry you are having to deal with this on what should be something fun for you to celebrate!

I am also a single parent and eldest has ADHD and anxiety and referred for ASD assessment. He is definitley more towards the ADHD though so may be different to your DD.

We get this every time I book a holiday ( although at first he is usually excited). I can completely understand it also being worse if she has become fixated on not wanting to go to a specific country ( I had this with DS oddly also about Iceland - he likes hot countries and I think he’d heard about the volcano and was worried too - although in the end we had to cancel due to illness last minute!). Once we get on holiday though he loves it, is saying ‘don’t know why I was worried! I love holidays’ but rinse and repeat next time we go away.

I’m sure you have but have you chatted to her about what it is she is anxious about ( this does sound like anxiety driving it)? And then try and figure some things to relieve that? Is she worried she won’t be able to game and is there any way that could be facilitated when she is away?

I must admit I do now generally book somewhere I know DS will like ( sadly for me usually AI places with a pool!) and have found since doing that it means he is more willing to occasionally venture on a different type of holiday. It’s so tricky knowing when to let them opt out and when not. I hope she does go in the end and you have a lovely time.

She sounds very self-centred. Sit her down and go through things you’ve done for her, both big and small, and explain that you didn’t want to go to [insert place] but you did it for her; that you don’t particularly like to eat X meal, but it was her birthday and her choice so you ate it for her.

All that ‘I didn’t ask to be born’ sounds like teen stropping and heightened emotions. She needs you to be the grown up here and give her instructions basically. Frankly, I’d also be saying to her that she comes along and if she makes any attempt to mess the trip up, sulks, fusses, moans, etc, she won’t be going to her country of choice on the next trip.

Teenagers can be very selfish and although sometimes we just have to roll our eyes, this is one special occasion where you need to put your foot down. I would not let her skip the trip because that sends a poor message to her. I’d say she needs a firm hand, as demonstrated by her not going to school and spending all the time gaming. Gaming is a scourge on society. I know it’s not the cause of MH problems but it hugely exacerbates them.

At 13 she has no choice.

i don't know how 13 year olds can opt out of a family holiday let alone going to school. She wouldn't have no choice if it was up to me. 13 is a massively difficult age because of hormone changes and mood swings. i've got two girls 16 and 13 so it's a nightmare some months with them both. However, i think parents are just so quick to give in and label as ND. They aren't they are teenage girls going through massive chemical changes in the brain. They still need to exist and function in society.

what? it's her moms 40th celebration!!! when do kids get to choose the location? seriously??? how is it mean?

so is half the population these days according to mumsnet.

'so is half the population these days according to mumsnet.'

1/20 approximately. We all just hid it as children.

i know lots of adults that would probably be diagnosed nd. They have managed to have a normal life, i often think im not 100% NT because have massive sensory issues but again what is the point in labelling? sometimes i think the diagnosis and label hinders more than helps and puts limitations on people.
my mother has diagnosed personality disorder and we i have an 18 year old niece born with a birth injury and severe non verbal autism and west syndrome. I am not "ableist" i just think all this recent over diagnosing is not helpful to o our kids.

So many opinions on this thread from people who have No Fucking Clue about parenting an incredibly anxious, school-refusing autistic child.

In your position, I’d allow her to stay at home with her grandparents and reassure her that this is ok.

There is so much more important stuff going on with her that you’re already trying to address - this holiday needn’t and shouldn’t become the focus of angst and conflict.

I would probably give her the option to opt out.

Another thing, could she be worried about safety? From an autistic perspective the first things I do when someone introduces me to a topic is go and research it. It doesn't help the first few things you see when you type Iceland into Google are news reports about volcanic eruptions and potential ones that could happen.

@hangingonfordearlife1

I actually like the label. I am what society would class as a functioning adult. However I struggle in my head every day. It is exhausting. A label actually made me feel better. I am not crazy. It has helped me understand so much.

I think there is no point in making her go, she will ruin the trip for everyone and that’s not fair

id say that she SHOULD feel guilty for not going, perhaps then she’ll start thinking about others a bit more, but she has no right to hold a whole family to ransom.

im cross for you @PinkCamellia you really deserve a fabulous birthday and it’s such a shame that whatever happens, it’s not going to be how you planned it.

She needs to get back into therapy, and yes, the devices are giving her a reason to stay home and excluded from everyday life.

If you can possibly find someone to leave her with I would.

She could wreck it with stroppiness and I speak from experience. It was Yosemite in our case. Iceland is marvellous and expensive. It would be awful if your DD spoiled it for you.