DD(13) saying she doesn’t want to come on holiday with us next week

[PinkCamellia]

I posted earlier about an upcoming trip to Iceland but thought this warranted a separate post. I don’t normally make a fuss of my birthday but as it’s my 40th and it’s been a really difficult few years, I’ve booked for me and teen/young adult DC to go for four days to Iceland.

At the time I booked, DD wanted us to go to a particular European country and was upset with me for choosing Iceland. Since then, she periodically says she doesn’t want to come and has even cried at the thought of coming. She says she doesn’t want to do any of the activities I’m planning and there’s nothing she wants to do there. I’ve tried selling it to her that we’ll eat nice food, so interesting things, be in beautiful scenery but she says she doesn’t care about any of that.

I’m so worried about her at the moment. Since hitting 13, things have unraveled for her. She’s completely stopped attending school and does nothing except play on her computer with her friends. She has no interests except gaming and baking and she’s put on a lot of weight in a short time. I feel like she must be depressed but she says she’s not. I think she might be ASD and we are awaiting an assessment.

What do I do? It won’t be the same without her and I worry she will regret not coming but equally the prospect of dragging her round or being stuck in the hotel with her doesn’t feel great either. Feeling really stressed and sad that my birthday won’t be what I hoped. And of course so worried about DD 😔

Hi OP.
I have a dd who is 16. She has just received her autism diagnosis.
many around were puzzled, because in public she has a bright sociable mask that she wears and only those of us who know her at home see the unmasked version.

She is lovley now, but between 12 and 15 was hell.
Honestly, however much I love her, I often wished I had not made that choice for a third child.

It was covid, she refused to engage with school online, she was highly anxious, and she through everything back at us, and said many of the things your dd has said. The combination of teenage and anxiety and struggling was so hard to manage. You never knew from one day to the next what to say. I am no pushpover as a parent and she was number 3 so not new to stroppy teens either. But it was so hard and heartbreaking. You have my full synpathy.

At the time, I was very like many of the posters on here. She needs to have less screen time and join in with stuff. Take a firm line. Don;t let her get away with nonsense etc etc
Trying to do that ruined my ds 18th birthday, and almost ruined my other dds too.

Looking back, if I had taken on board her possible autism earlier I would have handled things differently. More understanding. More flexibility and more options.

In your case, I would give her the choice. Let her know:
You love her, you want her there and you think she might enjoy it.
You are happy to make accommodations for her while there (miss certain trips, have a chill afternoon at the hotel or whatever.
But
You recognise that right now she is struggling, and that she doesn't want to come. If she really doesn't want to come, that is fine, and you will arrange for her to stay with grandparents.
The choice is hers, you will support her either way
You will go, and send her pictures of what you are doing, and next year she can come too.
(There has to be a time limit though due to buying the gear that you said you needed.)

I am guessing that once the pressure is off, she will want to go

It might be the thought of going cold turkey on the gaming that's putting her off... which would suggest it's become a problem. I'd be addressing that before anything else.

but she's not autistic. she's not been diagnosed with anything. my kids regularly refuse school. i regularly refused school... teenagers are boundary pushers that's what they do.

OP, you probably would have got more reasoned responses posting on the SEN board. You are getting a lot of hard line answers from people that don't understand or deal with ASD. @steppemum has posted wise words. I would do similar if I had support to look after the reluctant child.

The more you push the more your dd will resist especially if they have PDA profileMyand of your dd does go reluctantly they may not cope when there. My youngest with ASD ruined one day of an expensive two city break in bruges last year with meltdowns.

It's not easy, hopefully you can find a solution that works for all without too much stress.

Do you think that people
only become autistic when they finally reach the top of the queue for diagnosis and get the piece of paper confirming it?

I would talk to her and try to get to the route of what the issue is. Is it to do with the food available? Is it because of the activities? Do they need to know what's happening and when? Is it the flight? etc

However, if that was my autistic child, I would be saying that this is a special trip for me and you expect them to suck it up for a few days for you because you do alot for them and you deserve a treat from time to time. Discuss what would make the trip more manageable for them.

My autistic child stopped coping in mainstream primary school. Missed two years of school while we fought the system for an EHCP and to get a school that could meet their needs. I never once stopped them gaming because it helped them to regulate. However, I made sure that I got them out of the house every day too.

Funnily enough, now that they're in a school that don't deny their needs and meet those needs, they've been attending school all day, every day since. They do their homework without me having to ask and we've had glowing praise from all the teachers. They've missed 2 years of school and yet they're still achieving academically.

The current marketing about attendance is an indirect way of penalising the disabled. Just another way of attacking the most vulnerable in society and victim blame them.

Once again, the majority of the population have the wool pulled over their eyes and fall for the propaganda.

another tip.
dd threw a huge wobbly about going on holiday to somewhere new. I realised that she was not coping with the unknownness of it all.

We sat down and looked at pictures, of the place and of the room where she would sleep. We made a plan of the first day, including food and when/where we would eat.

We talked through the travel details. We made a printed out plan of what was happening.
We planned what she would take and packed her case well ahead of time. She had a pcking list too.

In other words we put in as much structure and as much 'known' as we could and took away as many questions as we could.

That really helped. She was still anxious until she got to her room, and then calmed down.

The wanting another country might just be masking for her extreme anxiety over going somewhere unknown and the uncertainty of this.

Thanks so much for the advice everyone, particularly those with ND DC who completely get where I’m coming from. I’ve had to learn the hard way that you can’t just ‘force’ an ND child to do anything and I’ve had to adopt a collaborative/therapeutic parenting style after many mistakes with older DD.

This post was specifically about this issue of DD not wanting to be there on my birthday and I mentioned her other issues to give context to it being more than just ‘brattiness’ but of course I’m incredibly worried about her day to day and doing my best to help her.

She doesn’t have a gaming device, she plays games like Roblox on her phone with her friends. During the day when they’re at school, she does things like scroll tik tok on her phone. She likes going to her grandparents as they have a PC to play games on but this tends to be at weekends when her friends are around to play as well. I think she is addicted to her phone but she can bring this with her on holiday. About once a month she meets her friends in town and she does watch tv shows and films, sometimes with me.

I’ve wondered if she’s depressed but she definitely has anxiety and has a diagnosis for that. I understand the arguments around ‘labelling’ but unfortunately my experience is that help is more forthcoming if you have a diagnosis but I don’t actually need one to know she very likely is. Even with a diagnosis, the support is not there. Older DD is also very bright but can only sit lower level maths and English at college because it’s set up for those who didn’t pass them at high school. There are no other GCSEs on offer so she’s doing a level 3 in a chosen subject which is very practical. I have had to let go of a lot of expectations and try to trust that things will work out one way or another, it’s just not going to be the way it happens for other people.

Thank you all for the birthday wishes as well. Most days I just get on with things but there are times like this that I’m reminded how much more difficult we have it than a lot of people and I grieve all over again for what ‘should have been’. I will try to enjoy it whatever happens but it won’t be the same without all my DC with me on my birthday.

I’m also late diagnosed and I strongly disagree with you. I think your autism might be the reason you are thinking in very concrete terms here. Just because your experiences worked well for you, it doesn’t follow that the same experiences would work well for every autistic person.

And the world DOES bend. It’s called reasonable adjustments. It’s a legal requirement. Learning how to advocate for our own needs is critical and that is what I want for my autistic children to enable them to thrive.

This thread is seriously ableist and actually really depressing / upsetting as a parent of autistic dc.

To think that a huge proportion of the world think our children are spoilt, selfish, entitled… I can assure you that my children are not. And if you think they’re not internalising that and feeling guilty, thinking those things about themselves, you’re very wrong. These attitudes from teachers, family etc don’t help us as families at all. And they destroy the children’s mental health.

OP’s dd obviously feels anxious and incredibly guilty. Manipulating her with ‘look what I do for you’ and removing her sources of self regulation is cruel and counterproductive. It’s not going to mean that the op has a lovely holiday either.

OP, I get it, it’s hard. But you’re doing right by your dd. Don’t ask for advice on mumsnet, it’s not a good place for this.

She’s just come to me sobbing saying she can’t go and she’ll hate it but if she doesn’t come she’ll feel guilty. I explained to her that sometimes life throws difficult decisions at us and we have to weigh up what to do according to our own set of morals, that whilst I will try to persuade her to come, I won’t force her and that I can’t make the decision for her. She’s gone to her room to think about it.

tbh this reads to me like an especially immature, lost and conflicted kid absolutely DESPERATE for the principle adult in their lives to lift the decision off them. She decides how much screen time she gets, she decides which apps she doomscrolls on, she decides if she goes to school, she decides if she goes on the already booked family holiday to celebrate her own mothers birthday, she decides if she eats a ton of baked goods that are tipping her into an unhealthy weight at only 13. It’s too much. Take the burden off her. “Weigh up your decision according to your own set of morals.” - really? She’s just a kid. A kid who is sobbing. You can make the decision for her and you should. Unhappy, lost, immature, possibly autistic kids need clearer boundaries, not “I can’t help you, you need to make all your choices and bear the moral weight of them”.

Interesting thoughts.
But I still disagree. I am so fortunate that I didn’t get diagnosed until later. The world doesn’t bend in the way SEN children are being taught. Not want to go to go to work today because you’re having a tough day? Fine, stay at home until you feel better. Good luck with finding an employer who tolerates that for too long.
Not want to stand up and do that presentation because it makes you anxious? Fine, but you’ll live in a permanent state of anxiety about anything similar in future and may well be overlooked when it comes to things like promotion.

You have to learn to manage yourself and work on the areas you find difficult, or you’ll never grow as a person. So no, you cannot expect the wider world to bend over backwards to suit you because you experience the world differently and frankly it’s a very cruel thing to tell children that it’s ok, society will adapt to you, because it isn’t true and it’s setting them up for a lifetime of disappointment, anxiety, upset and confusion.

You are dealt cards in life and you have to learn to play them, no matter what the hand. It’s not fair, if course, but it is what it is.

And the world DOES bend. It’s called reasonable adjustments. It’s a legal requirement. Learning how to advocate for our own needs is critical and that is what I want for my autistic children to enable them to thrive.

The high levels of unemployment in people with disabilities clearly shows the world doesn’t bend.

I want my DC to be able to advocate for their own needs. I also want them to be able to function in the world. It’s balance, always avoiding things that are uncomfortable means my DC don’t learn what helps them cope (and doomscrolling daily isn’t coping), never accommodating anyone else means they don’t learn to compromise, which is an essential quality for all relationships they will form.

It makes parenting a very difficult job because you need to be alert for when they really can’t do it, as opposed to it being difficult and needing the right supports to be in place. Giving a 13 year old child the choice about a family holiday that is meaningful to someone else is too much responsibility (and power), even without autism being in the mix. Put in the scaffolding she needs, reassure her, have a manageable plan that she has input to but I’d not be letting her chose on this on.

You are the parent and your need to put some firm boundaries in place.

Going on holiday to Iceland, a fascinating country, is not a punishment. Many people would love that opportunity. Just tell her this is not up for discussion.

But frankly you have wider and bigger problems:

I would also be concerned about the time she spends online/gaming and who she is in contact with.

Also why do you allow a 13 year old not to attend school? If your daughter is struggling at school/has some mental health or behavioural issue you need to address this, talk to the school/your GP and try to find support for her not to allow her to do whatever she wants.

Seriously OP you need to step up.

Thank god, some sense being spoken. All this about tough love and locking her things away ignores the fact that she is probably highly anxious.

Have you reassured her about the volcanoes. There was a lot of news coverage recently & sometimes kids even older ones can have a worry like that but don't want to say & it's easier to just say they don't want to go.

We obviously see this very differently.

I don’t feel I was lucky to go undiagnosed. Or to be expected to behave as a neurotypical person.

I also don’t see being autistic as a poor hand to be dealt. Being undiagnosed, for me, is being asked to play your cards without being able to see what they are.

What would happen if you tell her that it's your special birthday trip, that it's not about her and that you don't want her to spoil it by moaning the whole time? And remind her that you do plenty of things for her that wouldn't be your first choice of how to spend your time. I think 13 is old enough to hear that.

Fair enough. I like hearing different points of view and do recognise that my way might not be for everyone. I hope I haven’t offended you with my insights x

Well yes OP can tell her that and get her on the plane, doesn't mean that the DD won't still spoil the holiday for everyone. Not deliberately but because she's on sensory overload.

Tell her to stop being a spoiled brat. She’s coming on holidays and if she spoils it for you, then she will have to live with the fallout.

Things like tiktok are massively addictive. And produce a dopamine hit you don't get from real life.
I don't think the OP can force her daughter into school. She could, through phone controls, limit the time she spends online and put breaks into her day. I think not being able to go into school just now and spending the whole day on games/online can be dealt with separately.
I also think the OP should go without her for the trip to Iceland as she clearly deserves a bit of a break.

Just to add that DD is not a brat. She’s actually the most selfless and loving of all my DC although she’s definitely been more argumentative since hitting 13.

The problem is, no provision exists for high functioning ND DC like my DD. Her needs don’t warrant a place at special school but she can’t cope in a mainstream school environment either. There have been calls to build more SEMH schools to plug this gap so it’s a known problem but that doesn’t help us now.

What is causing anxiety for her is the idea that she will hate being there but won’t be able to come home if it’s as bad as she fears. She’s angry at me for not listening to her in the first place as now it’s booked, she feels under pressure to come and will feel guilty for wasting the money. At one point she agreed she’d come if she could stay in the apartment and cook. I found a cookery course for us to do over there but she doesn’t want to do that either.

Edited to add: she feels guilty for missing my birthday too and thinks I should have done something closer to home so she could come. I did consider it but as my ex friends are here, I didn’t want to be in the same country on my birthday. A bit silly I know.

@PinkCamellia

Don’t worry about the phone - I am addicted to mine too - it’s stimming with her fingers and to a certain extent dopamine mining as well.

You could try and gradually replace some of the phone time with other things she can do with her hands - probs why she likes cooking too, she sounds very sensory seeking.

Regarding labels - I had none, therefore no support or protection as a child. By contrast my DC have had 1:1 support and the labels have even protected them from bullying by adults at extracurricular activities. So they are very worthwhile, please don’t be deterred by anyone saying otherwise.

There is no need to grieve, your children are perfect as they are and will have their own strengths and achievements. Everyone has their own fish to fry so to speak, even if things look perfect - people can be adept at using smoke and mirrors, remember that.

Have a wonderful birthday - you deserve it!

And Happy Mother’s Day! 💐