My child will not go the fuck to sleep

[bleurghbleurghbleurgh]

Honestly, at the end of my rope here. Single parent, zero support, dd wakes at 6 and literally does not stop from that moment onwards.

Bedtime has crept later and later, and it's now verging on 9/10pm. I can't understand why the fuck she is not tired, it does not matter if I've taken her out for the whole day/she's been at school and breakfast/afterschool club/run a fucking marathon and then wrestled a bear, she WILL NOT GO TO SLEEP.

I literally feel myself get so stressed from about 5pm onwards in anticipation of the absolute farce that bedtime has become. Threats/bribery do not work, and she's currently howling at me from her room, she can't sleep, she's not tired, she's bored, her 'brain won't switch off'.

She has a whole bedtime routine, she has nightlights/a yoto player with relaxing (ha fucking ha) meditation playing or white noise. Nothing fucking works!!!!!!!!! And then she complains she's tired in the day 🤯🤦‍♀️🙄

I am literally on the verge of going out to sit in the car on the drive so I can get away from the stress. Or carting her off to the doctors to demand they do something, I can't go on like this. Send help please.

@KeeeeeepDancing surprisingly affordable. You only need to visit every 6/8 weeks and after the first few appointments I think they may now do some remotely after Covid.

INPP.org offer something similar BUT only treat from 7 upwards, don't treat retained Moro and charge absolutely extortionate amounts.

www.inpp.org.uk

Bob is better

DD started at 3.5 and I think we only had about 5 appointments. Her sleep improved after the first few weeks of treatment tbh. Started going to sleep earlier and sleeping through.

This is why we’ve struggled. DD is so like me as a child, I was diagnosed as Autistic and ADHD as an adult, yet paeds bounced back her referrals because she ‘functions too well’ in school to meet criteria. So they won’t assess her but I was left struggling with a child who couldn’t sleep, all of us strung out and exhausted! I am going to try switching her to magnesium gummies to see if they have the same effect though.

She's just challenging you. Kids are used to getting their own way and usually we give up and give in because we are too exhausted. Pick your method, be consistent and stick it out. It might take a few weeks, but it will be worth it. She's 6 and definitely old enough to know better now

Dog gates work.

Put her to bed in her room, put the dog gate up and tell her to go to bed.

"She's just challenging you. Kids are used to getting their own way and usually we give up and give in because we are too exhausted. Pick your method, be consistent and stick it out. It might take a few weeks, but it will be worth it. She's 6 and definitely old enough to know better now"

This. Stick to your guns and be consistent. It's tough but it will be worth it in the end.

I've just looked up melotonin and serotonin, the reason one of the previous posters was worried is because some melotonin has traces of serotonin in (there was a study in Canada). Which obviously is a worry. I think the best we can do is order well known and trusted brands.

Can she not watch a little bit of tv whilst you do jobs, a six year old does not need 1-1 supervision all day....I'm talking you in a different room not leaving the home.

I think the issue is it can affect dopamine or serotonin production levels in the brain. which is not a good thing esp for children. Should be used with caution!

I've read the 2 work together (in the brain) and that's normal, but some melotonin brands (in Canada) contained serotonin without specifying on the labels, which can have issues if you take certain antidepressants.

@BusterGonad have a read of this article

https://thirdzy.com/blogs/article/melatonin-hormones-and-metabolism

One quote:

Hormonal Disruption

Melatonin interacts with various hormones in the body, including cortisol, the stress hormone, and reproductive hormones such as estrogen and testosterone. Prolonged or excessive use of melatonin supplements can disrupt the delicate balance of these hormones, leading to potential side effects and imbalances.

For instance, studies show that melatonin may act as an inhibitor to (meaning interferes with), the human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) pathway. This can have effects on androgen production (hormones like DHEA and testosterone). It can also interact with the local corticotropin-releasing hormone (CRH) system. The CRH system is involved in how we respond to stress and how our bodies use energy.

These hormone interactions should raise some flags of potential concern for the long-term use of melatonin - especially in people trying to maintain their fertility and in children.

Sounds like she just doesn't need much sleep, but she's 6, not a toddler. Teach her to make her own breakfast so she doesn't have to wake you up when she gets up. Make sure she has books in her room so she can read quietly in the evening. It's perfectly acceptable to say to her that she doesn't have to be asleep but she does need to be in her room at certain times- unless, of course, she's unwell or scared. I was also very low sleep-needs and my parents generally just let me get on with it, as long as I wasn't waking anyone else up.

I think cancelling an activity the next day is within the realm of a natural consequence- You kept Mummy up all last night, Mummy is too tired to take you out. Possibly your child would respond better to a reward system, like marbles in a jar for every night she stays in her room from 9pm-7am for example, and a treat when it's full.

My just-turned-4 yo still regularly creeps into our bed at 3am-ish, it's not exactly comfortable as we're all crammed in like sardines, but if she's wriggling or chatting she gets one warning and then taken back to her own bed. She can stay in with us provided she lets us sleep.

It sounds like she's twice exceptional, or 2e. Gifted, and with ADHD. So was/am I- didn't sleep, did great at school.

Put her to bed when you think she is tired and tell her it's a challenge to see how long she can keep awake lying still and quiet

I know this thread is from a few weeks ago and I haven’t RTFT (I did read all of OPs responses) but has she been evaluated for ADHD? It’s often missed in girls. I’m a 30 year old woman with ADHD and I’ve had sleep problems since I was her age - the “brain won’t shut down” feeling is VERY familiar to me!

I take melatonin now and it works about 80% of the time (my problem has always been more with staying asleep than falling asleep - I tend to wake up around 2 or 3 and can’t fall back asleep until 5 or 6). Might be worth looking into. I also swear by my weighted blanket.

My parents kind of just left me to it - I usually read a book - when I couldn’t sleep, but I wasn’t the kind of kid who wanted constant attention so YMMV with that.

Hi, thanks for the latest replies. No she's not been assessed for ADHD, school have zero concerns... she is a model pupil. And can certainly focus for hours on YouTube, etc if I left her to it.

It's no better here, 9.30-10pm on a weekday, and she's only just gone quiet now, despite five solid hours of fairly high impact exercise today, which I've ferried her around to and sat in the bloody cold waiting for her, and am bloody exhausted st usual myself.

From watching her today with fresh eyes (if you will), and from watching her over the years at her other activities, it's clear that she can't stand still, constantly on the move... I'm not sure if that's just the excitement of doing them or something else.

She does sound like typical ADHD - the hyper focus on YouTube is classic too.

Have you tried putting the whole house to bed a couple of hours before her bedtime, doing her nighttime routine, then going to your bed and turning lights off and fake sleeping (only for a bit so she feels she’s not missing out on any excitement).

also audible stories.

Sorry to revive an old thread but I've just found this by googling 'mumsnet my 6 year old won't sleep'. I've just had another battle with DD who finally fell asleep just now at 10:30pm. First day back at school tomorrow too! It's been bad over half term, the latest was nearly midnight!
I try to be calm but I do go mad, I threaten to take things away. Sleep meditation, reading, leaving the room, staying in the room, gentle talking , done it all ...nothing works. It's absolute murder. Its annoying knowing all her friends were asleep hours ago. There's 2 parents here but her dad's extremely lazy and had been in bed himself since 7:30pm watching films! 🙄
I'm wondering if you found anything that works or your situation improved?
Hope so x

You have my complete sympathy. DS2 was like this. He just could not and would not sleep. From day 1 of his life he had a soothing calming bedtime routine. Made zero difference. Up and down like a yoyo. In and out of my bed all night long. It is exhausting.

My advice FWIW is to explain to her, 'After 7.30pm is grown up time and after 10pm is sleep time. So if you are awake after 7.30pm you need to play quietly by yourself.' Then get on with your chores as early as possible. Don't give her loads of attention. Just say 'bed' or 'It's grown up time. I'm busy.' Expect massive resistance for at least two weeks but just never say anything else until it bores her silly. DS still never slept but at least he eventually learned to entertain himself (no screens - just a low light, picture books, cuddly toys.)

At weekends could you set the TV to a cartoon channel the night before, and teach her how to switch the TV on, and watch on her own, with a cuddly toy for company, so you can get an extra hour in bed?

You could also go to the GP. I wish I had. There are sleep clinics these days in some places, and some GPs might prescribe melatonin or even a safe antihistamine to make her sleepy. Your health and safety is very important for you to function properly, and sleep deprivation is a serious issue.

@mrlistersgelfbride OP here, sorry for delayed reply, didn't see it before!

Annoyingly nothing has changed, I've just had to reluctantly come to terms with the fact that bedtime is just going to be later for her, and let her stay up a bit longer whilst I get bits done around the house, or at least try to.

Stupidly I gave in a few weeks ago when she said she would be able to sleep if she could sleep in my bed, snuggling one of my t-shirts (honestly she never ever was a clingy child so not sure why she's decided to start now!), and now I shut the door at 8.30, and tell her she is not to come out, so far it's working (she's not sleeping but at least she's in a bed!) but obviously backfired as means I can't go into my own bloody room until she is asleep, and then have to move her over when I want to go to bed (obvs she wants to sleep on MY side as well 😬😭🤦‍♀️).

So sorry, no actual helpful advice here, but you have my utmost sympathy. It really is a killer at the end of a long day, and trying to stay calm whilst inwardly screaming for just some peace is very hard.

Mines likes this but a few years younger, she does 9 hours of sporty type things a week. Only way she actually sleeps well. She never seems tired either. Zero problems with focus (she focuses really well according to her teacher and quite bright) but she struggles to be still.

I do wonder if she’s just high energy or theres something else going on.

Again, sympathies to you. It's so so hard. Dd is constantly on the go, literally she's signed up for every sport under the sun and I try and do reading etc with her every day to tire out her brain as well, but so difficult when it's just me, plus work.

Like your dd, she's excelling at school, super bright etc. ughhhhhh

Leave her to it. Switch off once she's in bed, whether she plays up or not. Just leave her to it. Strict rule that she must not come downstairs/ through to you. She's not the boss. You are. Noise cancellation by headphones for you if she screams. She knows she getting the better of you and you need to show her, safely, who's in charge.
"Mummy loves you very much. But after 7pm, you're in your room and I'm downstairs. End of".

My daughter used to struggle to sleep. If she came downstairs I'd turn off the telly and start doing jobs with radio 4 on in the background. If all the jobs were done I'd do some ironing! (Iron tea towels If I had to) Not really engaging with her, just being 'boring' so she'd realise I wasn't having fun without her. If nothing else she'd go and play quietly in her room!

I would look at retained reflexes, they are probably pumped full of adrenaline.

www.accesspotential.net

There is a questionnaire on there.