If you are a sahm...

[spandauballroom]

Is that how you explain what you do if someone asks?
What do you say if someone asks your job?

and some people clearly think they are better parents because they are SAHP's.

I say I'm retired now, which is true - oldest is 16 now and looking after little ones turned interesting caring for an elderly parent. But I did used to say I was SAHM before. I don't know why you wouldn't say that, if it's what you do.

*turned into

I was getting this rather than the other way round. @Bridgetjoneski thinks she is the best Mum in the world. I've also seen her thread. It's been an amusing read.

I was a SAHM for three years with my only child. I studied then went to work part-time. Personally once he was at nursery I didn't want to be at home all day. My MIL and Dad helped out. I went full time later on.

Everyone should do what suits them.

I think it needs to be acknowledged that both SAHMs and working mums both contribute hugely to society. I am a carer for my adult daughter who requires a very high level of care. I am extremely grateful that we have a system which allows me to be her carer and not have to go out to work. This is only possible through the tax contributions of the workforce.

Additionally, if mum's didn't go out to work, there would be very few women in the workforce. No female doctors to tend to sensitive needs, no female nurses, no female carers. My daughter feels more comfortable with women due to her disability so all that would not exist if every single mother was a SAHM.

There's been so many nasty comments from both 'sides' on this thread. The judgement and negatively shown by a number of posters has actually been quite shocking.
The vast majority of people do the best they can for their family.

@Mahoganyredvelvet I think its always the case with this topic. Last time I read I think the thread took a turn for the worse when someone suggested you aren't a full time parent if you work as well.

Yes indeed. I have learned from MN that that is a phrase best avoided!

I completely understand why it annoys people, but I think many people who use the phrase do so without thinking the implications through, and that often there is truly no intention to offend or disrespect another person's parenting. It's just a term they've heard used. I think that should be kept in mind.

Clearly there are exceptions to that as we have seen! People can be really judgemental. On both sides. (It disturbs me that I have to say sides at all.) I very much hope these judgemental types are in the minority.

But it is naive to think that there aren't sides. It simply isn't a case of there being 'free choice' because society has structured its 'growth economy' to demand a female workforce (who tend to also be predominantly lumbered with the mental and physical workload of caring for children). This has become entrenched through manipulating cultural expectations, which, alongside cost of living considerations (mainly housing costs) has now become a practical necessity, regardless of social norms. SAHP carry the psychological burden of feeling that they are guilty of not 'pulling their economic weight' and working parents feel understandable guilt at being pulled in different directions - both in terms of time, economic and emotional resources. These dynamics are far from ideal and a properly functioning society would make a far better attempt at structuring itself in a way that offered real flexibility and choices - and certainly wouldn't demonise those who wanted to find a way of being able to have more close contact with their young (and older) family members.

Still no need for the sniping and nasty comments we've seen on this thread though.
I hadn't realised that some sahm's genuinely see those working outside the home as poorer parents. Also that some of those working outside the home look down on sahms as somehow lesser and sometimes even a bit dim.
This thread really hasn't been pleasant! As above, hopefully it's a minority and most people manage to respect the choices others make or are forced to make.

The thing I find saddest is that generations of women worked together to give us choices by breaking down barriers and now our generation are women working against each other to resurrect the barriers to choice. To a large extent men keep out of it.

I don't think women are necessarily trying to "resurrect the barriers to choice", however successive generations of the male populace have proven that being a SAHM for an extensive period of time can put women in a vulnerable position where they can suddenly wake up to divorce, no career, limited finances, and limited pension. Or, possibly worse, being stuck in a loveless or abusive marriage due to worries about the above whilst still juggling the lion's share of housework and childcare.

I'm not deriding women for being SAHM during early years, I can see the benefits to that situation, but I think it's quite naive/deluded to think you're doing much of a service to anyone but yourself once the kids are (healthy, neurotypical) teens - at that point you're risking a lot on the idea that your husband will be decent and continue to support you.

Really? Men keep out of it? There are plenty of men moonlighting as women trying to enter our personal spaces, changing rooms, prisons, hospital wards...

I think that’s a slightly different issue isn’t it.

I’m really meaning about stigmatising working mums or sahms. Most men I know are not much interested and it’s the women slinging mud at each other over their choice.

Anyway not sure why you’ve popped up to niggle: I’ve been advocating in favour of the value of sahms not being overlooked which I thought was your bonnet bee. Careful not to alienate everyone…

That could be true for many. But the point is women should be able to judge those risks given their own circumstances without other women weighing in in a pejorative way. I know some mums who simply don’t have any other option but to work and I don’t think it’s fair they are seen as “ lesser” mums for doing what they need to do. I know some who can choose and choose to work because they aren’t cut out for day to day childcare and know they are a better mum for their children if they do, and I think that’s their decision to take without judgment. I also know some who choose to stay home because they feel those years are important and the risks you mention are manageable in their circumstances. I think all these women should be free to do so. I’ve never argued they are helping outside their own family ( I know some on here have extended that argument). I’ve only argued that what they do is still work and when their DP comes home it isn’t appropriate to expect the sahm to wait on them because they have “ worked” all day and the sahm hasn’t. To see women peddling that notion ( I think one on her said filing her nails ) is very destructive to the freedom of women to take these decisions in an unstigmatised way. Fwiw, the most highly qualified, intelligent woman I know has ended up being a sahm. It actually has come at some cost to her and she does feel it’s worth it - and, for her, a tougher day!

… and I think this is very true: the vast majority of women take the decision they feel is going to be best for their family in their circumstances. Those decisions will vary because the circumstances vary.

Except in outlying cases, mums do their best to do what’s best.

I don’t believe anyone who says their family set up and their mental health is “perfect”. There are pros and cons to staying at home and working full time and working part time. Anyone who acts like their choice (whatever it may be) is so bloody amazing, clearly is covering up insecurity.

It’s weird to say you’re a full time mother in the school holidays. Are those who work term time only like teachers both teachers and full time parents? How desperately sad to label yourself and feel so insecure.

If you’re doing what’s best for your family, then own it and feel proud. Equally, it’s ok to see that there are downsides and it’s not all sunshine and roses.

I was left wondering what “perfect”
MH looks like. I mean who’s the judge? 🤷🏻‍♀️