If you are a sahm...

[spandauballroom]

Is that how you explain what you do if someone asks?
What do you say if someone asks your job?

@hearthelf all your posts are incredibly well put.

I also will make no apologies for choosing to be with my children full time. I know it's a luxury & it gives my children numerous advantages to have me with them. No one is qualified to care for them better than me or no one will love them more than me.

It makes no sense to pay someone to do a job they could never do as well as me.
I have had friends go through so much stress with substandard childcare, bullying in creche, poor food, crazy prices, childminder ringing in sick.. I wasn't putting my family or my children through any of that. They have so many more advantages by having a stay at home parent with them full time & I will never make apologies for that.

No, you did more of less of the caring activities for your child(ren). You were never not a mum. All mums are full time mums.

@stealthbanana We are carrying out an overly simplified discussion, in the context of a somewhat unilinear, constrained exchange - this lends itself to a degree of reductionism. Of course, everything in reality is more nuanced - I accept that. But it doesn't detract from certain fundamental principles underpinning the overarching narrative.

Anyway, whilst this has provided a bit of Monday morning entertainment, I have, thankfully, got better things to be doing with my time - so I will bow out of the conversation and leave all you other lovely mothers to it! Have a good day (whether you are busy working in paid employment, or busy working for nothing, other than for the love of it!). 😀

I'd say the no mental health issues was just sheer luck. My mum was a SAHM and it wrecked her mental health and it affected her 3 children, but her family also had mental health issues in general so could be partly genetic.

Some people aren't cut out to be SAHM - I'm certainly not, I'd be climbing the walls! Very much plan to go back to work at least part-time if not full-time once my baby is 6 months old.

I'm not saying it's the case for all SAHM, but there is a danger of life becoming extremely insular and becoming very dependent on your spouse if you go down that route and the children don't necessarily respect or recognise your contributions at the end of it. Then once they turn 18 there's a question of what do you focus on now? My mother was utterly lost once her youngest moved out, wanted to divorce my dad but had become so dependent on him that she just settled for staying, has lost all her confidence in being self-sufficient. It's not an avenue I'd like to go down. Her main hobby during my childhood seemed to be fighting cashiers and headteachers for minor gripes...

Parents who work and pay for child care are still bringing up their children. Honestly, why such horrible language about working parents from all the SAHPs?

‘Yours is just a number’?
Jesus you are smug about this. And ignorant and really not coming across as a very nice person.
I worked (teacher). I couldn’t have been a SAHP for many reasons, not least that I am a single parent. I ensured DD was in a good setting where she emphatically was not ‘just a number’. I also had all the holiday breaks full time - you’ll find that, with the exception of teachers/term time only workers the reason working parents can’t cope in the holidays is because they need to scramble for childcare. Those parents moaning about children at home with them are obviously SAHPs who can’t cope with their own children being off school! Shot yourself in your judgey foot there.

Nobody outsources parenting when they go to work. They outsource a few hours of care.

Exactly - do they view school as also outsourcing the parenting, or is that miraculously different?

@CaribouCarafe school is education & education is a basic human right of a child you know!

@Bridgetjoneski I'm being goady, but if the kid is out of the house then that means there's a few hours a day that you're not a full time mother by the definition some people gave up above?

@CaribouCarafe be as condescending as you want but full time parents & sahm parents have made a conscious lifestyle choice to put their children first & foremost.
Many are not lucky enough to be able to do so or do not realise the advantages it heaps on their child.
I do agree with @Justfinking that kids in childcare setting are one of a number. Ratios are never going to be low enough to give each child the level of interaction, one to one attention & care they need & crave.

I’m not defensive. My DD is 28 now and fabulous and I’m semi retired.
I also didn’t ’ditch’ my role as a full time mother. I just laid for a bit of care during term time weekdays.
Your point about love is weird. It sounds like you think children in day care are not loved. You know they do t stay in daycare 24/7, yes?
Being a SAHP is of course hard work. So is working outside the home and being a parent. Caring for your child is valuable. All good parents do it. The person seeming defensive here is you, with your snide digs at people who chose (or were pushed by circumstance) to work outside the home.

Parenting isn't a job - it's a lifestyle choice.

Staying at home isn't without its value, but it's not a job.
Of course people should take pride in caring for their children and looking after their home, but there really is no need for the superiority complex.

Well that's where the term stay at home parent kicks in.
Many full time parents also chose to homeschool their kids after covid which would make those parents completely full time parents.
We chose to send ours to school so now I would refer to myself as a stay at home parent. Before the dc were in school I called myself a full time mom. Once the holidays kick in I'm full time mom again as we don't like using holiday camps & I value that time with them.

There's ways of putting your children first and foremost without necessarily going down the SAHM route. You implying that working outside the house is putting children on the back burner is what is getting people's backs up.

There's benefits to being a SAHM but there's also benefits from being a working mother for the child too: increased financial stability, gaining workplace skills that can be passed onto the child, networking for child's future career growth, and for some mothers working outside the house improves their mental health meaning they can be a better parent overall.

Being a working mum isn't for everyone, just as being a SAHM isn't for everyone. But I don't agree with the idea that SAHM care about their children's welfare more or that they prioritise their children more. Different systems work for different people.

Excellently put @CaribouCarafe 👏👏👏
Its the smug belief that they are so much better parents that gets everyone’s back up.

“ When people ask what you do they are asking what paid work you do.”

Though it’s nice to think they might be asking “ how do you spend your days “ just so they can take a general interest in you as a person not an employee - or do you think that’s unlikely?!

Do people actually ask you what you do? 😂I am not a SAHM. I'm actually an academic with a PhD and a very prestigious job, but literally no one ever asks me what I do. I've had people I've known for a few years actually surprised when they found out I worked. They ask dh, but literally no one ever bloody asks me about work. 😒

To me the issue is that if we have really reached a changed dynamic where women are genuinely free to be who they want to be and live their lives autonomously and free from inequality in terms of their choice of role, it’s just as important that women ( or indeed men) are not stigmatised one way or the other. Otherwise we have merely replaced a world in which they were confined by societal pressure to homemaker despite that not answering to their individual needs or desires to one in which they are confined to breadwinner by societal pressure, despite it not answering to their personal needs or desires. To me it’s sad when I see that limiting attitude being promoted by women against women.

@CaribouCarafe@CaribouCarafe I have my own savings, investments & pension so I am financially secure. My husband earns enough & I didn't see the point in paying complete strangers to have any hand, act or part in my childrens formative years. I didn't have children to hand them over to a childcare education.
My background is in marketing & I can go back at anytime but at the moment my family & children's needs are priority & I'll make no apologies for that.
My husband has wonderful contacts that can be called upon if the dc decide to follow his path. I still have lots of friends & acquaintances if the dc want to do marketing & advertising. These don't suddenly cease to exist if a mother decides to take care of her children full time.
In fact a few of the women I worked with did the same as me, one is now working freelance around her family.
My mental health is perfect as I'm not rushing out the door trying to organise my kids to get them to some childcare setting at some ungodly hour or stressing to collect them & trying to work full time to deadlines & lots of meetings thrown in.

Full time parent.

Or if I'm feeling self conscious 'I'm on a career break'. Lol.

I think it's such an emotive subject that people feel triggered by phrasing and language to the point where it becomes very difficult to describe anything without offending people.

There simply has to be a way that describes someone that spends their 'working' hours looking after their own children. SAHM is probably the most well known term but obviously a lot of SAHMs would say they spend most of the day out and about so it doesn't really make sense as a term for them. Full Time Mum fits because of other people can describe themselves as a FT doctor or FT teacher then everyone understands that this description doesn't describe the entirety of a person but more how they allocate their 'working' hours. The problem is that working mums then claim that it implies that they are somehow not fulfilling their role as mother during their working hours which is obviously nonsense. Unemployed is inaccurate for lots of reasons explained already on this thread. So what's left?

Personally I feel that the emotion comes from SAHMs not wanting to be diminished and WOHMs being resistant to acknowledging the extra care giving and ultimately parenting that SAHMs do as they think it implies that they are lesser parents. Until we can get past these emotional triggers then offense will continue to be found in all terminology that anyone tries to use.

I know of one or two mums who work full time who often boast "child free dinner with dh", "kid free weekend away" etc... It really irks me! Like really what was the point in having kids! These women work 40 hours plus, kids in childcare.. These mindless "childfree" social media captions really do annoy me, it also makes the mums seem entirely incapable!

@Bridgetjoneski your parenting style sounds intense and suffocating and would not suit my children’s personalities at all. My kids are thriving having input from a variety of family and friends and childcare providers who love them and have done nothing but enrich their lives. They are confident and sociable and they recognise that mum and dad are also both humans in their own rights with their own needs. Everyday is a day closer to them becoming more and more independent. Your set up does not sound a healthy way to live.
Not only that, providing for your family is an essential part of parenting otherwise we would need to say why did all these dads have kids if they didn’t want to stay home with them??

@Hobbitfeet32 describe my day to day parenting so you can tell in detail how I am suffocating my dc?

From when they were born they have had lots of interactions with neighbours with dc the same age (still do & sleepovers now), aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins. We attended breastfeeding groups, numberous baby & toddler groups, library events, we still visit the library twice a week & they do various amounts of extracurriculars which I can bring them to & collect them. However I am their main caregiver that was a role I was never going to relinquish to anyone..
I am providing for my family by making sure I am always present for them, ensue the house & life admin is kept on top of, ensuing the dc's extracurriculars, social & educational needs are met plus the household in general is kept ticking like clockwork which makes it a happier & healthier place for us as a family...
Many stay at home dads also do similar to me.
My dc are completely independent, their teachers all commented on their self care abilities when they started school. They also do a lot of chores around the house & we have thought them basic financial skills & budgeting from a young age. You have no need to worry about my kids. The advantages they have been graced with from having me at home are very evident👍