The parents of the 2 teenagers who murdered Brianna Ghey

[Netball01]

I’ve been following the horrific murder of Brianna Ghey, and it goes without saying that her poor parents / family must be going through absolute hell.

But after the names of the 2 murderers being released today, it’s made me think how on earth do their parents ever come to terms with what their children haven done ?! As far as I’ve read so far, they are just normal people. I just don’t know how you could ever try and move on from this.

I went to an all girls secondary. I was bullied, it was shite & I absolutely hated it. That is all.

To this day and perhaps at least part as a consequence, I get on better with males than I do other women. Adult women can be a lot more vicious & petty than adult males usually are in my experience fwiw.

Personally I think all things in moderation. My kids used to play with another family, no TV in their house, no screens. If she came to mine she'd beg to see TV. Back in the 90s it wasn't all day kids tv like now but if she could get the tv on she'd sit watching anything, the open university, racing from Newmarket, anything. My kids were allowed screen time but weren't nearly as interested in it as she was.

The problem with that is they can end up re-enforcing gender stereotypes - a handful of girls want to do metal work sorry no class available it's not viable to finance that. Half a dozen boys want to do food tech GCSE tough it's not on the syllabus at the boys school where as a mixed school will probably have both options available to all pupils.

My friend was murdered, back in 1999. It was a high profile case at the time but before social media, so not really comparable to now.

6 were convicted, 3 were juveniles, 1 juvenile was a girl.
During the trial the juveniles were anonymous but were named shortly after sentencing.

The trial had a false start due to the family and friends of the accused threatening the jury - a mistrial was declared and new jury selected. You had to show photo ID to access the public gallery after that. The trial lasted almost 3 months at the Old Bailey.

The 6 convicted all had quite complex backstories, I got to know the sister of the eldest a little, up in the public gallery.

He was the only one to show any remorse on arrest, volunteering info. He appeared in the dock all bruised, where his co accused had attacked him for grassing. He’d been a child carer for his disabled dad, who had recently died, he was arrested for arson for setting fire to his dead dad’s bed.
His infant daughter was killed in a car crash the day after the murder.

Last I heard (and this was a long time ago) he’d was doing ok in prison, keeping out of trouble and getting some qualifications.

Of the other 5, I reckon at least one would’ve killed someone, anyone, at some point (as a young teen he chucked a wheelchair bound man down a flight of stairs) and another would probably have been involved in some sort of violent crime (who was seen on CCtV casually singing a rap song ‘Murder She Wrote’ as he left the the scene of the murder). All were petty criminals from a young age.

The girl was featured in a prison documentary but I didn’t watch it.

Most of them were released long ago, but one may never be released as he keeps committing violent crimes in prison.

I remain in touch with my friend’s parents, his dad died after a car accident a couple of years ago, his mum wrote a book of poems in the years after his death, she’s pretty elderly now.

My friend’s mum will never forgive the 6 who took her only child from her, but we all hope that true rehabilitation is possible, that a good life is possible beyond release, otherwise what do you do about teens who kill? It’s too depressing to contemplate.

Observer long read, from just after the trial (before the juveniles were named): amp.theguardian.com/theobserver/2000/jun/04/life1.lifemagazine8

Judge rules names of juveniles can be published: www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/teenage-killers-named-after-court-plea-fails-ruling-706727.html

Timo’s mum’s book:
www.amazon.co.uk/Losing-Timo-Linda-Baxter/dp/1870206665

20 year anniversary, Vice: www.vice.com/en/article/a3xazz/south-bank-skateboard-graveyard-timo-baxter

From October 2023: www.surfertoday.com/skateboarding/the-story-of-the-london-skateboard-graveyard/

Condolences to the Ghey/Spooner family - ‘justice’ is important, but it’s not enough to heal the enormous loss and the trauma of bereavement due to violence.

That was the 90s though. Very different now.

Who does metal work at school, male or female?!

Metalwork is part of the DT ‘carousel’ at my daughter’s all girl comprehensive!

Everyone did at my mixed sex comp (admittedly that was in the dark ages (1990s). DH wanted to do GCSE RE - but not enough of them chose the option was it wasn't run (all boys).

The half schools mixed sex 1/4 all girls 1/4 all boys might work in big cities but it isn't a viable option here. Our next secondary school 1 mile away then 8 miles to the south is the next nearest and a similar distance to the west is a school. It's 10 miles to the north and about 12 miles to the closest school to the east. Public transport is decidedly iffy. So if you had both sexes in single sex schools they would probably be 15 miles+ apart with a bus service that is at its very best patchy.

Moderation hasn't changed.

ETA: Sorry, this is a reply to Mummypop. I couldn't get quote function to work.

But everyone's experience is different. I went to an all-girls school until 16 and loved it. Still have friends from there. Changed to a mixed school for 6th form (because we moved) and it was utter hell.

Here’s the thing. Moderation is of course the way forward with social media and technology, as with TV, however the nature of the internet is that these kids have the whole world at their fingertips on devices small enough to fit in their pockets. These highly addictive smart phones, tablets, laptops etc are extremely hard to monitor for busy parents and as a society we’ve normalised the use of what is essentially crack for the brain to such an extent that many will criticise parents for denying their children access them. I think a lot of it is a case of children not being treated as children anymore. They have far too much autonomy in some ways (own bedrooms, privacy, expensive gadgets, unmonitored online relationships etc) but lack real freedom to play, explore, work (yes household chores and Saturday jobs a thing of the past for many kids). It’s a kind of indulgent neglect that’s so widespread it’s endemic.

I know we want to look for reasons and answers in cases like this but I do think it's sometimes just a horrible perfect storm. I doubt he would've done anything like this had he not met her, not as certain about her but being able to confide in him certainly emboldened her.
Two really messed up kids. Not sure how much we can blame the internet for that, messed up kids have existed forever.

I know a family where the daughter, who I shared a hobby with, was found guilty of culpable homicide as she was found to have encouraged two scumbags to murder her ex in the most disgusting manner

Her family think it's their fault and she just fell in with a bad lot

Completely ignoring how they spoiled her growing up

They also thought the court cases was a fuss about nothing and couldn't wait till it was all over and they could g on with their lives again

Of course child murderers existed pre internet and all kinds of terrible things happened, however when you look into the case you see in this particular case unsupervised internet access played a huge role in shaping the minds and behaviour of those involved as well as the facilitating the crime itself. As parents we need to assume the worst when it comes to potential material our children are viewing or able to view via friends and school mates and act accordingly. One shared computer in a shared space for example as one poster mentioned used to be the norm would be helpful for so many families.

One shared computer in a shared space for example as one poster mentioned used to be the norm would be helpful for so many families.

But time & tech has moved on. We had a shared computer but my parents didn’t use the computer much for work & I only used it a little bit for schoolwork. Every thing my dc do for school is centred round a device as is my job & DHs.

That’s your opinion. And opinions are not facts .

It was on either Sky news or BBC news website that they are both teachers. That's where I read it.

we know that but they were still children and some of the things they were viewing were apparently really bad . We can’t just give up can we ?

@Sureaseggs44 I think having one shared computer in the home in this day & age is unrealistic. I’m not sure why you have conflated that with giving up…

Yes well most schools have made devices far too normalised for school work too but that’s another debate! I’m not suggesting necessarily that adults don’t have their own devices for work etc however it doesn’t mean that there cannot be a shared device for homework that is in a shared space. Kids can even have their own laptops for schoolwork only which is only allowed to be used in a common area so parents can keep an eye. It’s allowing children to go online in their bedrooms or on smart phones that are much harder to monitor that is the problem.

@FriendOfTimo im sorry, what an awful thing to happen.

It’s allowing children to go online in their bedrooms or on smart phones that are much harder to monitor that is the problem.

it terrifies me, I had a phone at 16 but I wiled away the hours chatting/texting and playing snake. There is so much content geared to kids now & of course social media.

So you're never going to let them visit friends' houses? Be anywhere without you where they can access things that you can't monitor?

You're being stunningly naive. If you're going to allow your children even the minimal amount of independence and social lives, you're just going to have to trust them and their friends. Or accept that you cannot control every minute of their lives.

When I was in my early teens I had a big interest in murder cases and someone gave me some of those true crime magazines that had crime scene photos , it was quite bad but there was a sort of car crash facination . But I can’t imagine some of the things they were accessing , it a way it must normalise or make the crimes not seem real ?

it is an important subject to talk about I think . I would much prefer a world where children are allowed to remain children for as long as possible .