Constance Marten & Mark Gordon - Baby A case

[SportMum1982]

What have I just read? What the actual fuck is wrong with the world. That poor baby. These utter idiots. Sorry I’m so so angry.

Constance Marten and partner ‘killed baby to keep her out of care’

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/24e56090-f175-4bf8-ac07-380621d9954f?shareToken=186074e86c05c4df704ef1889186acdc

Does anyone know where they lived before the burning car incident? Did they live in a flat/ house ?
They seem to be very chaotic, left the Airbnb they stayed in in a right mess. Only there a week and it was a mess. The shed where baby Victoria’s body was found was also messy, stuff strewn everywhere by a press photo.

They briefly had a proper tenancy in London but inexplicably didn’t pay the rent, were evicted and left the place filthy with thousands of pounds worth of damage.

I think we're ( or rather the jury are) being given big hints as to why the other children were taken into care. The Prosecution asked her today whether she thinks people should go to the police if their partner beats them up or if a stranger sexually assaults their child.

@Movinghouseatlast - could you tell me where you read or heard that? I've been following the case via the press and a few podcasts and find many details are left out. Thanks!

It's on the BBC.

BBC News - Constance Marten says her 'influential' family supported social services
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68567686

I don't think they're giving hints at all.

Those questions were in relation to adoption conspiracy theories, Ian Josephs and CM's attitude towards engaging with authorities. IJ advises against all contact with police in case SS force an adoption.

@Wizzywoo18 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68567686

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/24184439.constance-marten-trial-live-case-continues-old-bailey/

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/24184439.constance-marten-trial-live-case-continues-old-bailey/

14:35, 14:45 and 15:30. Jesus wept.

Also this whole tent thing of "other cultures do it" - well, she keeps saying the tent was only temporary so is that because she does somewhat realise a tent in winter in Britain is not actually suitable for a newborn to live in?

😂I need to get faster at typing - twice in a row I've been beaten with links

Society types do get their kids taken into care as much as anyone else. As the LA fostering scheme tends to be replaced by a 24hr nanny, relations, boarding schools, summer camps, etc, it doesn’t show as much.

The richer you are, the more you buy your way out of embarrassment.

But private clinics and rehabs don’t hesitate to ring SS if their Old Etonian clients tries to christen his firstborn Arsehole and downs a litre of whisky before ‘parenting’.

What happened today? I saw the trial was paused or something?

Perhaps CM fired her lawyer again.

Does anyone know whether there is a limit to how often you can change representation and whether you could later have an appeal or a retrial if the revolving door of lawyers has made it too disruptive? Could it become confusing for the jury?

Has CM had several lawyers/barristers? Seems like she takes all the responsibility since MG does not speak.

I can’t find anything about her changing her representation, can someone post a link?

@ForSereneSwan
@GrandKarber

CM seems to have switched from Lewis Power KC to Francis FitzGibbon KC but I thought I had read that she'd switched a few times. However, a quick search isn't bringing anything up so I think I'm wrong on that point. If I come across where I read it I'll share.

Edit: Still digging and there is an article from earlier saying that CM was being represented by John Femi-Ola KC. He is repping MG but it appears that you can represent two co-defendants, although it can be inadvisable. 🤷‍♀️

Another adjournment for a week ,How long is this going to drag on Poor Jury one has gone off on Holiday what effect does this have on the Jury ,

Its really Very Very sad her Mother is a family councilor giving advice to Others on how to live their Lives Yet her daughter is a Mess ,CM arrogance regards right and Wrong way to raise a child simple child necessities and needs , CM Quote Babies dont need Much Just food Warmth and Love all of which shes failed terribly Just so her and MG could Play Mummy and Daddy bear Just popping Babies out for the state to raise Why have her Maga wealthy family not stepped up and taken the children in,
My Friend raised her daughters child after she was diagnosed with Mental health issues ,

I don't think we know that her family haven't taken the children do we? Nor should we.

Therapists are like the rest of us. It seems that CM is the only child in the family to have been ‘difficult/ vulnerable’ or whatever you choose to call it. I’d bet the farm that her mother has felt guilty, responsible, heart broken about CM and her children. We don’t know whether the family did step in, or try to. CM says the interfered, judged and worked with social workers and the state to remove her children
its such a tragic series of events and we know very little about CM or her family of origin, or her older children. There’s a lot to unfold once the trial is over

I read somewhere - can't remember where, that at one point CM's parents did try to seek guardianship and it was rejected (or CM did not agree), therefore the 4 children were placed for adoption. It is a mess, that is for sure. Not sure how this will pan out.

I've listened to the latest episode of 'The Trial' podcast and was struck by how much CM deflected and prevaricated when cross examined. At one point she spoke for 4 minutes without getting to the point - the judge had to intervene multiple times to get her to answer succinctly.

I think she sees her cross examination as an opportunity to express her disgust for SS and the removal of her children. She seems very traumatised and the whole story feels more and more tragic.

Whether she agreed or not would have been irrelevant if they were positively assessed. It's definitely possible they were assessed but it was negative, many family members want to care for children but for many reasons aren't suitable.

Agreed. Could have been detrimental and conflict ridden between the family, CM and MG. Best for for fresh start with assessed adoptive parents.

How do you watch The Trial - is it on ITV?

Or sometimes it happens that the family member isn't able to do it for health reasons. Google says CMs mum is 64, so she'd have been 60ish when the older DC were removed? Not sure how old her dad is. But that's a huge amount to take on at that age, even if you've got lots of resources, and plenty of people in their 60s wouldn't have a clean enough bill of health.