Constance Marten & Mark Gordon - Baby A case

[SportMum1982]

What have I just read? What the actual fuck is wrong with the world. That poor baby. These utter idiots. Sorry I’m so so angry.

Constance Marten and partner ‘killed baby to keep her out of care’

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/24e56090-f175-4bf8-ac07-380621d9954f?shareToken=186074e86c05c4df704ef1889186acdc

@Alltheyearround CM isn’t coming across as someone who can be reasoned with. Her legal team must be watching her testimony in horror, she'll have been heavily advised but still choosing to come out with this utter nonsense.

I wonder if the approach was felt justified from the previous history.

I wondered if perhaps her access to money made it potentially harder for her to track so police/agencies went big fast.

Or perhaps MG's violent sex offender credentials made it more urgent?

Could be either, both, neither or some other factor that we don't know about. I'm musing aloud really.

I imagine there will be a review. There are always reviews.

The police make a fuss when they know the clock’s ticking to save a life.

Everyone wanted to find Victoria before she died.

@BresciaBike Yes, having access to cash makes it harder to track someone for sure. No credit card trail or cash machine locations. And we don't have the full picture of what police and SS knew at the time, plus his background.

I doubt MG's criminal past was a consideration. They had their first child back in their care after proceedings. Whatever the worries were , they were serious and related to the care of the older children.

I doubt we ever will know - the family courts are private.

Yes, felt like they would have her no matter what, and maybe they even felt like it was better that she died than go into care (though they haven't said that out loud). No surrender etc And CM thinks she is a good mum and in the right.

Can't get my head around recruiting a baby smuggler from gum tree. Why she thought that was a good thought to share in court I do not know.

Very little insight and appears arrogant, that plus a sort of paranoia = perfect storm.

And the fact that Victoria died actually shows they were right to go high profile actually. They had reason to believe she was at risk of serious harm, and they were right. Going low key would probably have resulted in Victoria being sent abroad with gumtree baby smugglers or worse. They took a gamble and sadly it didn't pay off but not taking it would almost certainly have resulted in a terrible outcome also. Without the benefit of a crystal ball they did their best.

One thing I'm quite distressed by is that they said they kept getting recognised and laughed at in London. So people knew who they were but didn't report it to police; or police couldn't find them in one of the most CCTV heavy cities in the world. Bizarre.

How could someone smuggle a baby out of the country though?

Surely there must be ways to prevent this - coming in or going out?

Babies have passports. Unless they got one forged.

Gong low key would have taken longer to find the body. Victoria died pretty quickly. CM isn’t letting on how long her little life was.

Well if you remember in the beginning they had quite a lot of support and people were saying to leave them alone so I’m not surprised to hear people recognised them and didn’t call the police, a lot of people just thought it was ss wanting to snatch their baby in the beginning.

Theoretical point I know.

I am not smuggling any babies any time soon, I assure you. I have too much on sorting a SEN tribunal out with useless LA for DS speech therapy.

People do smuggle children. It would be fairly easy to smuggle a baby on the passport of another similar looking baby. Newborns change pretty quickly!

I guess so.

Yes true. I hope some people who thought that/saw them and didn't say anything have had cause to reflect. In fact some posters from earlier on this thread too.

The thing is that personalities like these two are really rare but when you work with people in any kind of 'challenging' capacity you've probably come across a similar personality before. The general public will almost never have done. It's hard for most people to get their heads around people who think and behave like this.

I very much doubt people were recognizing them and responding by pointing and laughing as she claimed, even if that is what she truly believed. Not being even noticed in broad daylight in London by passersby is far more likely.

Maybe not. The paranoia was real, but I can believe people recognised them and didn't report it. Who knows what's true about that.

Quiet possible. TBH when it first hit the news, general reaction round here was an assumption that they were homeless living out of a car with their cat when the woman gave birth early. Car caught fire while on the move and driver didn't have a license/ insurance /MOT, so they'd legged it.

Court resumed at 12 today then took an hour long lunch break at 1pm? I'm in the wrong job!

I wonder how long the prosecution's questioning will continue. It feels rather like CM is digging her own grave and the prosecution is letting her go for it for the time being.

The judge and court staff won't have been twiddling their thumbs all morning! They always take a lunch break but judges/magistrates often use the time to read and prepare.

exactly as RowanMayfair says. Court days are long with a lot of time spent in negotiations between parties. I can’t imagine the legal teams involved in this get much down time

Ah but the journalists hanging about court to report on it are doing alright! (I'm just being obtuse really ;) )

There are any number of CMs in society getting into all sorts of crazy situations. Privilege, money, education, high status family background etc gives them the confidence and entitlement to ease their way through life, seemingly with little regard for anyone else.

Many decades ago a friend's step-daughter was once such girl with the usual story of a string of ne'er-do-well boyfriends, drugs, exotic travel, birth of a baby, time in prison and so on. Unfortunately she eventually died of an accidental overdose in her 20s.

It's the money and privileged background that enables it all. Poorer girls don't have the luxury of living a permanent Glasto life-style, and being baled out by a trust fund when the going gets tough.

I one hundred percent agree, I've changed my mind a few times in this case but Westfacing has got it right. She's just not relatable, she's not down to earth in any respect, i doubt her mind is even on this earth