Constance Marten & Mark Gordon - Baby A case

[SportMum1982]

What have I just read? What the actual fuck is wrong with the world. That poor baby. These utter idiots. Sorry I’m so so angry.

Constance Marten and partner ‘killed baby to keep her out of care’

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/24e56090-f175-4bf8-ac07-380621d9954f?shareToken=186074e86c05c4df704ef1889186acdc

Doh yes it is! But not evidenced by the article. So shoddy journalism rather than sensationalist mumsnet posting.

Hear, hear.

Sitting here reading this and thinking about my experiences of working with families like this. Knowing I did the right thing and that several babies are safe because of the work of myself and others. Just wish this little one could have been amongst them. Such a needless death. Absolutely tragic.

Yes, I understand that they caused her to die through their actions. But nothing in the article indicates they meant for her to die, or that they killed her on purpose to keep her out of care. I'm just trying to find accuracy.

Really? Have you read the prosecution's opening statement? They killed that baby through their reckless, selfish stupidity

No I haven't, I've read this article. Which apparently doesn't evidence the headline in the article.

i know they caused her death. But can you not see that's different to intentionally killing her?

Poor kids. With such a privileged background I can only guess there's something seriously wrong with both of the parents - it doesn't seem there's anything to blame on the mum's upbringing, at least.Their statements make no sense at all. I'm afraid I don't hold out much hope for the kids who survived, they must have had terrible early experiences and probably something genetic passed down.

They made the decision not to bring the child to hospital

There's no telling how she was fed

They saw her decline and failed to help

Intentional neglect can get you up on a murder charge

@RowanMayfair. Please stop minimizing the death by debating semantics. Please stop trying to be right. The thread is not about the semantics of killed vs died nor do you Rowan need accuracy.

The prosecuting KC is the same guy who got Wayne Couzens a whole life tariff. These 2 arseholes won’t ever see daylight again.

I wonder if it will come out after the trial whether it was wise for the authorities to go public in the search for them, once they'd gone on the run.

Obviously the child was at risk, given the previous four children, but she might still be alive if the pair of them had simply gone off grid - Martens had money so they could have rented somewhere or stayed in a hotel. But they were 'Most Wanted' and their faces all over the press and TV so they resorted to those desperate actions of giving birth in the car, and living tents in the depth of winter.

Poor baby.

Her parents are a bit odd by all accounts so not sure its accurate to say theres nothing in her upbringing

Nevertheless all the back and forth about whether they 'killed the baby to keep her out of care'

Well yes and no. Not an intentional killing in the traditional sense no. But they went on the run and kept the child away from the authorities and in freezing/unsanitary conditions in order to keep her out of care, thereby 'killing' her due to these factors

Both statements are true and ultimately a child is dead by her parents actions.

The outcome would have been the same and then the question would have been 'why didnt the authorities do a media alert, they could have been found sooner'

It doesn’t - poor headline

Shocking!!!! 😱😱😱😱
That is godamn awful.
Without detracting from their vile abuse, do you think Marten was mentally ill? Very, very selfish of her to not give up her baby to social services but she appears very mentally unwell.
What a fucking wreck!!! Both of them should serve long hard sentences. Nasty!!!! Poor, dear baby RIP xxxx

Poor thing never stood a chance. I hope they get the book thrown at them.

Yep
Or oh mental health
Sadly just rotten parents
Poor Victoria and poor other children who have ended up in the care system

Both candidates for forced sterilisation, if the government could order such a thing. Bloody hell. Beggars belief.

People like her (and him!) should be sterilised.

Why arent you asking if he is mentally unwell?

Is it because you find it hard to comprehend that women can be selfish and not care about their children and so have to be mentally unwell to be this abusive?

Bad parents might just be bad parents. They might have a number of other comorbidities too, or they may not.

@RowanMayfair I understand the question/point you are making. Other PPs appear to be only able to react hysterically to the story. As far as I can see there is no suggestion that they intended to kill the baby in the usual sense of the word 'intended'. Clearly everyone agrees that they were cruel, reckless etc.

This. That poor defenceless baby. Heartbreaking.

To be fair, the semantics are important in terms of a charge

They havent been charged with murder.

She wasn't Baby A.

Her name was Victoria.

@BirthdayRainbow in the case it’s Baby A. Apologies I did not see Victoria used.

I know it's a very leading question (with potential for very speculative answers) but does anyone who works in the field know what sort of issues would have seen 5 prior children removed from the parents?