Constance Marten & Mark Gordon - Baby A case

[SportMum1982]

What have I just read? What the actual fuck is wrong with the world. That poor baby. These utter idiots. Sorry I’m so so angry.

Constance Marten and partner ‘killed baby to keep her out of care’

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/24e56090-f175-4bf8-ac07-380621d9954f?shareToken=186074e86c05c4df704ef1889186acdc

It's definitely on Spotify podcasts @ForSereneSwan

Actually children tend to do better with family than being adopted, but you're right to say that family dynamics can make it detrimental to stay in the family network.

Can the birth v. Functioning Family stat still be true?

I can't see where it says it's adjourned for a week?

The poor jury though. They will have known its going to be a long trial but surely some of them will be facing difficulties as it gets even longer.

CM clearly has her own reality that she won't veer from. In her eyes her family didn't want the children yet they applied for a wardship for them. I hope those children are happy but they will carry those early childhood memories forever.

I think on the podcast they said her father applied for guardianship for two of the children (my understanding was this was before the younger two were born).

Quite a few grandparents on Gransnet have taken on their very young grandchildren, formally and informally, well in to their 60s and 70s, often with financial difficulties along the way.

All people at age 60 aren't ill, where do you get that from?

Yep. And quite a few haven't, for the reasons I listed.

Who do you think said all 60 year olds are ill?

'Many people in their 60's wouldn't have a clean enough bill of health' Sorry, misquoted as 'all' but where do you get the many part from? Do you have statistics on this?

If you're in your 60s and putting yourself forward to raise very young children they do need to consider not only current health but also projected health conditions. I know of more than one grandparent at that age rejected because of their weight for example, or because they smoke. They need to be reasonably sure the grandparents won't die before the child reaches 18.

PP said "clean enough bill of health". She didn't say "ill". There's a vast area between ill and healthy.

Let's all dump everyone over 60 in a overweight smoking category. And if SS do judge on these things now they really should be including these very factors in every parental assessment they do. How ridiculous. Some people are overweight or underweight & it has nothing to do with lifestyle. It could Al's just be normal for them.

You know, it's plain prejudice to suggest that someone might get unwell because of their age, plenty of people who are young do & that is totally unpredictable.
So social workers are now predicting health conditions? Switching to health practitioners is normal? It isn't.

Personal history, family history, immediate family issues, secure housing, attitudes to health, diet and exercise, current smokers, former smokers - social services have to consider the child's stability and not just whether a family can look after a child in need short term, but also in the long term

There's no point placing a child in a family where the adults are chronically ill themselves, need regular medical interventions, whose health or mobility is starting to fail and the child faces the prospect of having to move on again, or become a carer for the adults

They're under enough stress and upheaval, without the prospect of moving on repeatedly

What a strange interpretation of what I said. And in fact it's not social workers who approve/regulate kinship foster placements it's an entire fostering panel. People have been turned down at assessment because of weight/health issues but I know of cases where they have passed an assessment but been declined by fostering panel.
I didn't suggest people might get 'unwell because of their age'. I referred to predictors of serious health complications or early death that at 60 might not be debilitating yet but by 70 could lead to incapacity or death.
it's also completely different to assess parents and assess potential carers. That should be obvious.

edited to add also the carers have to have health assessments with health practitioners who then add their recommendations. It's not social workers making judgements about health

Um what are you talking about? I wasn't just referring to you, step off

You realise that a fostering panel are made up of social workers & laymen don't you? Not doctors. And they go entirely (most likely) on the assessment of the assessing social worker? I've presented these cases to these panels. It's all about interpretation.
Most family members already know their health needs, & how to manage them just as most parents do. Would be patronising to suggest otherwise.

@Movinghouseatlast your idea of people in their 60s is quite odd.

I am in my 60s and don’t know anyone my age who has any kind of limiting health conditions. I am far fitter and have more energy than I did in my 30s and 40s as I know how to take care of myself. My gym is full of women in their 60s, 70s, 80s and a couple in their 90s.

Just to mention one working environment where people in their 60s and beyond are doing demanding work, the Houses of Parliament. Do you really think someone could work as an MP but somehow not be physically able to look after children?

My mother’s generation thought they were old at 50, but so much has changed culturally, socially and medically since then. Some people haven’t caught up yet it seems.

After CM's cross-examination is it on to closing statements, bar any other witnesses? The reporting has been so patchy it's hard to keep track.

Well, aren't you lucky?

Come to the more deprived areas of the country, where heavy industry, alcoholism, drug addiction, smoking and heavy manual labour have taken their toll on historically poor populations and you will see people decades younger than you with walking sticks, frames and wheelchairs

Poorly educated, poorly taken care of, poorly resourced, lacking decent food, libraries, consistent Internet connections, consistent housing and amenities, whole towns are scraping a living and almost everyone knows someone who knows someone who's criminally connected.

I'm all right, Jack is fine for you, but many are in failing health long before an increasing retirement age

Remember, the standard of living has fallen since the Tories came to power and the average age of death has fallen

Where you are above average, there are far too many who are below average

Yes I do think being an MP is easier than looking after small children. 😂🤦🏻‍♀️ Let alone 4 young children!

not everyone in their 60ies can imagine raising teenagers in their 70ies and beyond.

It was me who said most people in their 60's are not ill! Another person said they were and I was putting her right. I don't know ow why you are telling me off?!

This thread has taken a silly turn. We don’t know if her parents offered or not, we don’t know who adopted their children and those children deserve their privacy. If they didn’t offer doesn’t mean they don’t care or dislike their grandchildren. I don’t believe what CM said so far, she has said a lot of strange and unbelievable things.

No, or I'd have used a more precise term than 'many'. I'm speaking from some relevamt experience in this area though, afraid I won't be able to be more specific than that. @Gingernaut and @RowanMayfair have made some pretty useful contributions, however. MN is not a representative demographic and on some threads that's more obvious than others...

This!