US/ UK set for military action in Yemen

[Whu]

In light of recent attacks on goods ships by the Iranian backed Houthis,(in solidarity of the people of Gaza), US and UK look set to bomb the Houthi held parts of Yemen.

What is everyone’s thoughts and fears about this?

For me, I wish we would be campaigning for a ceasefire in Gaza rather than this. Also, I think it sets the way for wider war with Iran.

@noblegiraffe Of all the people on here, do you really have any confidence in this Govt and what it says?
Plus of course the Israelis aren't listening.

Bottom line is, the bombing isn't working and the only way to avoid huge increases in prices is to get the Iranians to tell the Houthis to stop and that means talking, though tbh the Houthis have probably now realised the power they have & might not even listen now.

@TrashedSofa I ve told you what the plan should be, ceasefire, aid... talks leading to realise of hostages, this can only be done via pressure from the USA.. which is starting to happen, very critical of Israel refusing the possibility of a Palestinian state & want Israel to scale back their offensive.
IF after all this has been done, the Iranians etc still aren't listening, then bomb but a ceasefire and aid trucks can be brokered far more quickly than trying to hit highly mobile missile system.

Those poor hostages, they seem to have been completely forgotten by their own Govt, if talks got 100+ realised, why can't more talks get any surviving ones freed?

Whats your plan A? Very quick to pull me up but so far, your idea is to carrying on bombing and have wide spread air drops (which Israel wont allow) & you ve never mentioned a ceasefire (as far as i'm aware)

You haven't told me what the plan should be. You came out with a few vague, implausible ideas and have repeatedly failed to answer the very basic question about how long you'd be willing to wait before taking military action. Laughable.

We've had laughable wishful thinking about the US 'stamping their foot', which is in no way curbing the Israelis, and then you deluded yourself that talking to the Iranians was going to do something. All this mixed in with the idea that removing Houthi excuses was some desirable goal we should put civilian vessels at stake/ignore the disturbance of global shipping routes in order to achieve. Woefully incoherent and naive.

My Plan A, as has been pointed out many times, is to take strategic and military action now, not leave the Houthis to continue firing weapons at civilian vessels and pretending that's going to help the hostages when Hamas were already murdering them long before the US strikes. Because your idea about waiting has already failed.

If people have better ideas about how to achieve this than strikes, I'm all ready to hear them. Yours are irredeemably poor, though, because of the flawed standpoint you start from.

@TrashedSofa

"If people have better ideas about how to achieve this than strikes, I'm all ready to hear them"

+++

OK I will have a go but realistically there are no good options.

Actually I can see @jasflowers point in that using multi million dollar missiles to prevent the use of $25k drones built in some Yemeni garage is never going to work long term- all you are going to do is re arrange some Yemeni sand in a very expensive way.

That said asking the Israelis for a ceasefire or asking the Iranians to get the Houthi to please stop attacking ships is incredibly naive, doesn't understand the situation
and is never going to work.

That said I see two options, one politically acceptable in the West but not very effective and the other not politically acceptable but more effective.

Option 1
Use the US and UK navies to only protect US and UK vessels or headed to US / UK ports. When other countries vessels or vessels carrying cargo from other countries (ie China) get attacked then those countries will either pressure Iran or get involved I don't see why US/UK taxpayers should be paying the protection bill for other countries vessels or cargoes (China).
In addition Egypt is losing significant money on Suez transits and will also bring g pressure to bear

That said it only partly works and will still cause economic damage and inflationary rises in the West.

2. on the basis my enemies enemy is my friend the West could somehow and covertly "assist" terrorist groups fighting against the Iranian regime and threatening that regime which could all conveniently stop if Iran stopped supporting the Houthis. There could be ways to do it under the radar of the press but if ever found out...

Lastly putting US / UK military boots on the ground in Yemen is an absolute no no.

But there really is no good effective option to stop these attacks on shipping other than getting other countries on board (no pun intended - "shipping" / "on board")

Interesting post @1dayatatime. Fully agree there are no good options at this point.

The main thing is that any plan has to start from the point that nicely asking the various parties to do things isn't going to work, and neither is the expectation that either the US or Iran are going to put any of them on a leash. Obviously yes there will be no Western boots on the ground in Yemen, it's either some manner of bombardment from a distance or getting someone else to do our dirty work.

The Egypt point is a good one too, and hasn't really been fully fleshed out on this thread. Not only is their economy suffering, but also some of the Houthi missiles have actually landed on their territory. Naturally, their government aren't particularly pleased about this.

Of all the people on here, do you really have any confidence in this Govt and what it says? @jasflowers that is a fascinating response. You’ve been going on about how Gaza needs aid and when I say that the govt has been sending aid, you say they’re lying. Why is that? Do you think that the govt couldn’t organise aid to Gaza because it’s incompetent (but you are happy to believe that it can organise a bombing raid?) or that you think the govt wouldn’t want to organise aid for Gaza (because they are evil)?

We have a foreign aid budget, we have sent millions in aid to Gaza in previous years before this all even kicked off We would already have experience in that area. The govt has stepped up that aid. Do you genuinely think that’s a lie? What about the aid in previous years, is that a lie too? Do you think the rest of the foreign aid budget is also a lie?

Or are you just suggesting it’s a lie because it suits your narrative of the situation that you don’t want to have to amend?

Here's another link for @jasflowers , it's about the UK government's humanitarian aid to Yemen over the years.

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-9326/CBP-9326.pdf

Page 10 is interesting. It says that the government's position is that "only a ceasefire and sustainable peace could end the humanitarian crisis" (in Yemen).

Any opinions on whether that's a lie?

No, it's a reference to your standpoint on the govt and education - apologies if thats not you.

How is this aid getting into Gaza? is it stuck on lorry in Egypt? or is it funds earmarked for Gaza?
Bit like "we have removed asylum seekers from hotels" when what they ve done is taken them from hotel and put them in another.
So no, much like Thomas, i don't believe a fucking word this Govt says not matter how many govt papers you link too plus that paper is pre Oct 7th.

@TrashedSofa Difficult to reply to you because you keep insulting me, rather childish that you cannot build a counter argument without also chucking in a whole heap of condescension, less of that please.

Like i said, your plan to bomb isn't working, its just making the Houthis launch more strike, much like in Afghanistan, these military ventures with no end game, don't end well.

My idea to push Israel into agreeing to a ceasefire and getting aid back into Gaza hasn't even been tried so unless you have a crystal ball, you don't know whether it would work, i also said that protecting shipping as we are doing should carry on, so military action would continue, i personally would try to protect all shipping regardless of origin, its hardly the crews fault and an oil tanker blown up in the Red Sea would be a eco disaster and PR coup for the Houthis/Iran, who we need to be talking to as well, if we aren't doing alread.

All bombing Yemen and Gaza is doing is radicalising even more groups against the West, is ensuring there is no way out for Israel and the war Israel is involved in now will last for generations.. and thats from a former Israeli special forces officer and ex Govt minister in Israel.

Plus of course the humanitarian disaster.

Well hearing the commander of nato on news telling people to “prepare for conscription” in coming years isn’t very reassuring. I thought the nuclear age meant we didn’t have to go to war anymore like the old days but seems like it’s not the case. If i had boys I would be terrified

Having a strong conventional military is vital to avoid war as is trade and communications but no one can predict what happens when someone like Putin comes along.

atm the UKs armed forces are set to shrink by a 1/3rd... madness.

It'd be lovely if we were in a situation where we could simply 'get' Israel to agree to a ceasefire, Iran to want any of this to end, Hamas to stop murdering and mistreating hostages, the Arab leaders to give a tiny shit about the welfare of Palestinians and all the various other sweet ideas you've come up with. We're not.

That means any 'plan' you might come up with based on any of these things isn't worthy of the name and is doomed to fail. If you think it's crystal ball territory to understand that all these things are utterly unrealistic, that's due to your poor understanding of the situation. It's unfortunate if you find that condescending, but it's difficult to tell someone how woefully naive they are any other way.

And you still haven't told us how long you think we should indulge ourselves with your implausible ideas before military strikes are acceptable, since after all you've been clear you aren't against them per se. Apparently removing Houthi excuses matters, so how long is that going to need?

How much shipping should be diverted, civilian ships attacked while doing their jobs, Egyptian towns getting hit as collateral, do you need to see first? If the Houthis continue attacking civilian shipping even when escorted by naval forces, presumably you're ok with the naval forces firing back- how does that mitigate against eco disasters, further Houthi radicalisation, the Israel Palestine conflict continuing and all the other things you mention? To say nothing of the humanitarian issues we risk if global shipping becomes vastly more expensive and Egypt's economy tanks. None of those things are being remotely alleviated by us indulging ourselves with your implausible and incoherent nonsense.

You want a massive air drop into Gaza & you want to bomb the Houthis into submission, something that a decade + of Saudi attacks have failed to do.. is that also incoherent nonsense?

So what are you going to do when these strikes don't work?

I seem to be able to disagree with you without being rude, why can't you? adds nothing to the conversation.

We didn't start it OP. The Houthis, backed by Iran did. We send aid to Yemen yet they attack our ships. As for a ceasefire that won't happen until the Israeli hostages are released. This conflict is squarely on Hamas who broke the well established cease fire by taking those hostages and the Houthis who started attacking ships. They were given numerous warnings but chose to carry on with the drone attacks anyway. You ask 'why is it is not too he Europeans'? We have a Royal Navy I don't think they do. Europeans under fund their contribution to NATO as well.

I don't recall military action during his presidency. Was there any?

Yes, the hostages should be the priority. They have probably been through hell.

TBH, the only way we meet our NATO obligations is by inc non military spend in defence budget, such as pensions and some types of FO funding & GDP is hardly increasing in line with inflation.

Our Navy is around (at anyone time) 6 or 7 Frigates and our total defence forces are set to fall by another 1/3rd, we can't even send a frigate to the Caribbean now, its a small coastal patrol craft, ONE Frigate in the Red Sea, despite the danger to UK trade...

We launched ONE strike at the Houthis, we simply haven't the capacity now a days, a v great shame (even if strikes work, it'll be the US doing them)

No, it's a reference to your standpoint on the govt and education - apologies if thats not you.

It's absolutely me. But just because I am extremely critical of government policies on a variety of issues, it doesn't mean I'm going to believe that they just lie about them all.

So no, much like Thomas, i don't believe a fucking word this Govt says not matter how many govt papers you link too plus that paper is pre Oct 7th.

That was the point of me linking to it. We have been sending millions in aid to the region for years. The scandal around our government's commitment to foreign aid (and of course there is one because it's this government) is that they've been cutting it or spending it on refugees in the UK, and the impact that will have on the poorest regions in the world, not that they've been lying about sending it in the first place and that it hasn't had any impact.

If you are going to dispute that the government is currently sending humanitarian aid to Gaza, then you need a better reason than 'it's this government'.

@noblegiraffe I'm obviously not talking about pre Oct 7th, we've always had a decent FA budget, just that most of it now a days gets spent in the UK on asylum seekers and associated costs.

I've heard ministers saying they are currently sending x millions to Gaza but as i said earlier, how? Israel is letting in tiny amounts and with massive aerial bombardments happening in the South and the North pretty much cut off, who is crazy enough to go in there? many UN/NGOs have pulled out.

My opinion on this Govt is not to take at face value anything they say, thats not to say they always lie but no one really knows anymore.

I'm obviously not talking about pre Oct 7th

Right, so you agree that we have, up till October 7th sent millions in aid to Gaza. You agree that we have said that we are stepping up that aid. You suggest that it is difficult to get aid into Gaza which is true, but that doesn’t mean it hadn’t been sent.

And if we are sending aid to Gaza, why would you assume that we are making no efforts to get it into the country?

Why would you assume that the only thing we have actually done is a bombing raid? No talks, no negotiations, no efforts to get aid in even though we’ve sent it.

Not the first time you've had to be told this in this thread, but what the Saudis previously tried and failed to do in Yemen is stop the Houthis from being in charge at all. That is not what's being attempted now. There's no suggestion from any party that the US and allies aim at regime change in Yemen.

This is a really fundamental point and if you don't understand it, you can't possibly comprehend the wider situation either. But then perhaps that's why your ideas have amounted to let's try glitter and kumbaya.

Incidentally, it's not for you to tone police. If posts break guidelines they'll be deleted, beyond that we can all post as we wish.

The fundamental point is that your ideas aren't working and never will, the situation is escalating, leading to the very things you claim you want to stop.

Funnily enough, an idea being touted by the USA yesterday was to get a ceasefire in Gaza to stop Hezbollah from continue attacks into Israel from Lebanon.... funny that.

As for your tone, i'm hiding this thread now, you re clearly not interested in debate.

Ultimately, you just don't know what you're talking about.

It's shone out from every post you've made. Your ideological take on the subject has made you gullible enough to believe some total nonsense, which is why your posts have been a contradictory, conspiracy theory adjacent mess for a whole week now. There are sensible arguments about what our response ought to be, but nobody who thinks the US and Iran can just tell everyone behave is capable of making them.

USA and Uk bombing Iraq and Syria , is it a coincidence that King Charles ,Kate and William are all taking a long break even if it is due to medical reasons?Or do they know something we don’t?

I'm confused. Why is the UK bombing Iraq and Syria now?

is it a coincidence that King Charles ,Kate and William are all taking a long break even if it is due to medical reasons?Or do they know something we don’t?

Do you think they've gone to an underground bunker having been told ww3 is starting next month? 😉

Iran killed 3 US soldiers and injured others in Jordan so the US (only the US, not UK) targeted Iranian sites in Iraq and Syria in retaliation.

The UK and US are jointly targeting Houthi sites in Yemen because of the terrorist attacks on international shipping in the Red Sea.