US/ UK set for military action in Yemen

[Whu]

In light of recent attacks on goods ships by the Iranian backed Houthis,(in solidarity of the people of Gaza), US and UK look set to bomb the Houthi held parts of Yemen.

What is everyone’s thoughts and fears about this?

For me, I wish we would be campaigning for a ceasefire in Gaza rather than this. Also, I think it sets the way for wider war with Iran.

Why did the Houthis attack the Danish-owned Maersk Hangzhou which was sailing under the flag of Singapore and nothing to do with Israel at all?

Ralpix, what a really stupid thing to say. There are NO terrorist supporters here- but many who are terrified of the next war- with nuclear arms thrown in. And the UK acting, yet again, as a vassal of the USA.

There are NO terrorist supporters here

You've not seen the support for the brave Houthis standing up against evil Israel on here then.

Fingers in ears and reading thread through sunglasses

Bombing middle eastern countries always worked out well for us in the past. Its been love and kisses ever since we first gave it a go

I think the Houthis have their own motivations, it’s a way of gaining legitimacy with those in arab countries who are unhappy with Israel and cementing their relationship with Iran, they have declared their support for Hamas already. So you have Iran and their proxies, Hezbollah who basically run Lebanon and the Houthis who now run Yemen and Hamas in Gaza and all the friendly countries like Turkey and Qatar (who will probably have to have a long hard think about that).

What’s interesting is that Hezbollah have been really careful not to escalate and been quite measured in their responses to Israel but the Houthis are all in. I wonder if they are trying to draw a line between those who talk and don’t act and themselves (not saying that in an approving way, just note worthy). Placing themselves as defenders of Palestine.

Just like Gazan’s a reserve my sympathy for the people living there rather than their leaders.

Not known as a very successful or unflawed method to use I give you that

However this wasn't an invasion or mission to overthrow a leader. This was a physical warning to the Houthis that they need to stop escalating the attacks or else there will be consequences. That the previous warnings were not just empty threats

Do I personally think this will work? Yes and no. At first they have a reputation to protect, so a lot of threats will be made and a few smaller than before retaliation attacks. However I think they may take a step or two backwards in a way they don't lose face as well.

I thought it was fairly well-known they have up to date missiles from Iran plus drone technology. I mean if others didn't know that before everyone does since the used drones etc the other day.

Yes they are desperate to have a go at American, no doubt about that. It is in their motto or whatever about Americas and Jews. However the situation is if they thought they were strong enough to fight America or Israel properly they would have invaded Israel long ago or even now. Firing at Israel or at shipping or at other states isn't something new for them. It has all happened before. Only difference is because of the current climate they are feeling a bit braver and more confident. That is why the airstrike happened to try and knock a bit of that new found confidence egged on by Iran back out of them. The only way Houthi would be a real threat is if Iran properly joined in and that isn't going to happen at the moment. Maybe one day if enough of the other Arab states would join them in a war.

Currently most the others have said they will restart normal relations with Israel a suitable time after this conflict. That doesn't sound like they are planning to join any war Iran wants. In fact Iran got pretty pissed off with the others for their wanting to stay neutral at the last Arab conference. Iran was asking them to join a condemnation of Israel and they were not interested in doing that. They only spoke out about the large number of deaths and said that wasn't acceptable ( or something along those lines)

Stay off Twitter! I stopped a few years ago. It is like a arm chair exstemists playground on there. Yes a fair few extreme Americans but a fair few exstemist Jews, Muslims, British and everyone else too. Not really a good representation of how there various countrymen feel abthe conflict or how much they understand it. Only reason to do Twitter is to find useful shared videos of events around the conflict

The IDF have stood down a large number of resever soldiers this month. The ground mission in Gaza has got to the stage where the extra men are not needed there. However they have been told they will be needed in February. Most people I talk to seem to think that will be to fight the Houthi back from the border areas or even to do similar to their plan for Hamas. I don't think the last one is likely though. Not unless they had support for it from within Lebanon

I think the UK government knows full well that Iran, Russia and a few others have been directing us into a trap. The west are attacking and the west is bad type thing. However they haven't had a lot of leeway about the discussions they have made. It is very much a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. However I don't think we in the west have politicians that think about things in the very long-term, that can play a good game of strategical chess.

Well, there are still charities and UN agencies still in Gaza and the "current restraints" is Israel are bombing the xxxx out of the place.

A British surgeon Prof Nick Wallace (i think thats his name) was talking about this after his trip to Gaza recently, the lack of med facilities is incredible, he has seen amputations done on children with no pain relief, imagine that!
I understand Israel had to strike back but they have gone way past defence or even attack, this is now about removal and extermination.

Two Palestinian women killed daily, 10 children have limbs amputated each day too.
An Israeli minister recently saying that they want more diseases in Gaza as that will kill more of them.
Israel has reduced troop numbers but the bombings have actually increased.

The Houthis have agreed a ceasefire with Saudi, they control 2/3rds of the country and have 20m people under their control, they aren't going way and we cannot destroy their capabilities.

I would suggest, given the situation in Gaza, we would be better off spending our energies sorting out the humanitarian situation first, then of course, if these attacks continue, then we have to consider military strikes, in the meantime, the chickens are coming home to roost on the UKs decision to reduce its navy to a handful of operational ships at anyone time.

Under Blair frigate/destroyer numbers went from 30 to 23, its now 18, so despite the threat to UK shipping, we have just one ship to patrol that area.

But how would we sort out the current humanitarian situation first?

You've said you don't want air dropped aid. Lorries mean Hamas get their snouts in the trough ahead of the most vulnerable. The fact that the UN and some charities are still operating there hasn't prevented Hamas from stealing aid, and Israel bombing the shit out of the place is also not imminently about to change. Whether anyone here happens to be morally happy about the behaviour of the combatants on either side doesn't actually impact on any of these things. So as I said, what's your better idea?

Re the Houthis, I agree with you about them not going away. That's why it's so unfathomably thick of people to imagine that if more aid got into Gaza they'd get back in their box. Which was my original point. The fact that they weren't doing this until they were tells us absolutely fuck all.

@TrashedSofa There is no way of getting aid into Gaza without some of it going to the wrong people, thats just a given in any conflict.

Israel of course could manage the aid couldn't they?

The fact Israel isn't going to stop bombing, says quite a lot about them and their dehumanisation of the Palestinians.

I do not know if the Houthi's will stop their attacks if more aid got into Gaza and there was another ceasefire but its worth a try isn't it?

Calling me incredibly thick isn't very intelligent either, whats your argument?

Whats the alternative? when a senior UN aid official says he has never seen such conditions in any war zone, including mass starvation and children (anyone) is having surgery done with no pain relief... then we must act and stop this, we are living through the modern equivalent of some of the worst atrocities carried out during WW2 (outside of the concentration camps) only now we are complicit in them.

I don't know whether Israel could manage the aid, or whether they're the best people to do it actually, but they're evidently not going to be doing it in the near future. So again, if you don't want air drops, what's your better idea? You still haven't said. All you've done is tell us how awful the impact of Israel's actions are. Which is true but you're essentially trying to use it as a reason to swerve the questions. I'm not asking you about your moral judgement about any of the parties concerned, I'm asking you to justify your disagreement that aid should be dropped by air.

In terms of your point about it being worth a try, no it isn't. Because that's a pointlessly naive and stupid take. We should provide more aid to Gaza, which needs to include drops, and we should do so on the assumption that the Houthi attacks will continue and need to be contained. Not least because of the impact that rendering one of the busiest shipping lanes in the world unsafe will have on the world's poor and vulnerable. This isn't something to just give a go because why not and if we happen to be wrong, oh well.

Now I'm open to arguments that strategically there are better ways to do it than we have been. Absolutely. But pretending the nice Houthi boys are going to let us back in a time machine to the 6th October isn't that.

Do you really think if the USA stamped their foot, Israel wouldn't change course?

Of course they would, without US weapons, Israel is finished, its just that they are calling the USA's bluff.... so thats how aid would get into Gaza, sorry i didn't make that clearer.

You can't air drop aid into Gaza so long as the Israeli's are operating in the air, its too dangerous for the aid drops.

Houthis didn't start attacking ships until about a month ago, so its pretty clear there is cause and effect with a lack of aid into Gaza in anycase, aid helps the humanitarian situation and would at least remove the Houthi excuses and shows them up to the rest of the Arab world that they are bullshitting.

As i said, i don't know and equally neither do you but doing the same things just ensures the same results.

Again, Saudi used hi tech western weapons on them for decade, they never even came close to defeating them, a few US strikes wont either.

The fact that some are uncritically sucking up terrorist propaganda in the face of the reality of the actions of certain groups is wholly depressing.

This a goalpost move. What I'm asking you is to justify your opposition to dropping aid into Gaza, which you haven't, and why you think that the Houthis going back to 6th October is one of our choices. The US aren't going to 'stamp their foot' so that doesn't answer either of the questions.

I'm asking you what you think about the situation as things stand, not the situation as you would prefer it to be. That means the Israelis continuing the bombardment with no guarantee they'll be able to destroy Hamas, Hamas stealing aid, the accompanying awful effects on civilians and the US not curbing any of this.

In terms of removing Houthi excuses and showing the rest of the Arab world that they're bullshitting, what impact would this have? The rest of the Arab world has done very little since 7th October, even Hezbollah in Lebanon have carefully spelled out that 7th October wasn't their doing and have generally been more bluster than action. Leaders in the Arab world clearly don't have any desire to get involved, and it's they who make the decisions.

@noblegiraffe are you really suggesting the well-documented evidence of imminent famine and collapse of the health system in Gaza is “terrorist propaganda”?

No. This balls about the Houthis attacking random international shipping out of concern for the terrible plight of those in Gaza is terrorist propaganda.

Well, you re sort of saying that nothing will change, if thats true, then nothing will, so you are correct.
So, for you, we just have to accept the status quo, i don't and believe the West has to put pressure on Israel to stop what is clearly an attempt to displace 2m Gazans and doing so with no regard to any human life.

Goodbye Gaza.

Hezbollah have done quite a lot, Israel says 100k displaced, many killed, sure they can do more.

I ve explained a couple of times that an air drop can't happen unless Israel halts air activity.
Also Hamas would have sole control over that aid too & Israel would doubtless attack anyone who went to get it.

Houthis have only started attacking in the few weeks, so we don't have to rewind to 6/10.

Israel have said they wont stop whatever the outcome of the court case, if so, Western leaders have a dilemma.

So what would you do, bearing in mind no one can suggest any alternative ideas... which is what you ve told me.

Doubtless is, so whats your solution?

Solution to Houthis attacking random international shipping? I dunno, we'll see what impact taking out their kit has.

Cameron's only been at the Foreign Office 8 weeks and already we've started bombing people. You'll note that Parliament wasn't asked to agree to the operation. Seems the Boy Dave has learnt something from Parliament's refusal to let him bomb Syria all those years ago.