My sister wants to be a doctor. AIBU to say no?

[onthebesttrain]

To refusing childcare help

Not only would most medics say run for the hills anyway, most medics, as in 99.999%, don't have a child when starting medical school.

My sister is 10 years younger than me and currently doing a few shifts as a HCA at the hospital. She completed her a levels and has taken the time away to think of her next steps

She got an A in Biology, Chemistry and English Lit

My mum so supportive but suffers with bad MH issues and chronic fatigue. She said she was so proud of her for choosing medicine and that 'We will support her, I've said we can all chip in'

By all she means me and her... and it's a no from me!

AIBU? This isn't the odd but of childcare. This is ridiculous. Not to mention you need to often travel or live miles away at a moments notice for placements as an FY1, FY2

My mum can't take care of my nephew for that amount of time

My mum said she's really shocked I won't even consider it. I said she isn't thinking right and my sister needs to be more sensible

Seeing them both on Sunday... and I think someone needs to give them both a dose of reality

Our dad is a man of few words and won't.

If your sister is a single mum, during the first three years she’ll get a childcare grant and some universal credit anyway. Childcare grant is reasonably generous and you can use it for childminders, Nannies, wraparound care etc. she shouldn’t need to rely heavily on you.

@Annoyedwithmyself , most of your post is very informative but I take exception to your assertion that science, aka, STEM subjects are the "hard" subjects as if the arts subjects, equally important, are somehow easier, therfore less less "worthy." The truth is that arts, humanities and languages are being squeezed out of the curriculum for the all-important STEM subjects. As for practical skills - far too many young people are being forced into unsuitable Mickey Mouse degrees as academia is seen as the be-all and end-all. You have done really well for yourself and l hope you enjoy your career - you have certainly worked hard for it and obviously overcome some difficult obstacles.

All she said was
"
People seem to enjoy jumping on Medicine threads with negative 'absolute truths' for some reason in a way that I have never seen with engineering or other hard subjects"

No mention of STEM. Just engineering as an example of another very competitive and demanding degree. Doesn't mean that there aren't others, STEM or not STEM.

What are you on about?

Apologies if this point has already been raised…. It won’t just be childcare while she’s studying / training. She will probably have even longer daily childcare needs when she qualifies until her child is an adult.

I think if she gets in, and ultimately your mum is happy to support her, you should just remove yourself from the discussion. Your mother is an adult who can make decisions for herself. Fine, you don’t want to provide support, but there’s no need to be so negative or resentful.

World over families, in far more strenuous circumstances than these, make situations like this work to enable a member who has been given an opportunity.

@BeckyBloomwood3, you are being disingenuous. Obviously, she only mentioned medicine and engineering but you need STEM subjects in order to have access to them. It irks me that sciences are considered "harder," therefore, by implication, superior. They are more difficult for some people, but easier for others, like everything else. She has done very well and, goodness knows, we need all the doctors we can get at the moment, but somehow medicine seems to be considered on a different level from everything else as most of the posts on this thread demonstrate. The OP is being maligned, unfairly in my view, for realising that her sister's dreams, while laudable, come at great expense to all around her, not least the most important person in all this; the OP's nephew. We can all have dreams and quite often we are in a position to achieve them. However, there are many, many times when we have to take our dreams in a different direction owing to our circumstances at the time. So many people here are accusing the OP of jealousy but I don't see that in any of her posts. I see realism and frustration as she tries to do the best by her own children and by her nephew.

ah sorry I just meant the choice of subjects

@CarefullNow Agree! OP sounds angry and bitter her sis is even considering a medical career.

More like angry that her own life has been offered up as a crutch to enable the sis to do a medical degree. I'd be really annoyed if people felt it was my duty to facilitate someone else's dream. You can bet the favour would never be reciprocated either.

Oh yeah, it’s fair enough to be miffed with her mum who has offered her time out on her behalf. But as other people have pointed out, all she has to say is no.

She’s talking about giving her sister a reality check about her plans.

Yes sciences are considered 'harder' but that's not the point of the thread. PP was referring to all the misinformation around the grades needed into a medical degree. It's just you who read much more into that and went off about arts and whatnot. Maybe true but not relevant to the thread.

I agree that OP has been treated harshly on this thread. R.e. medicine being treated differently. What other profession requires a 5 year degree and then training/exams for close to a decade after that.

There's the added mental/emotional strain of the NHS being underfunded, being responsible for lives. In a 'direct' way! A civil engineer's shoddy design might kill people but she won't have seen them in person, treated them , known their names only to have them die.

It really is different. 'Fair' or not. Still different.

Even nursing, midwifery etc are very difficult with placements everywhere but the need for studying while working post-qualification is less.

If you can’t look after her child then you can’t. Your dm shouldn’t be volunteering you.
There are other ways around the childcare issue. I paid another school mum to take my dc to school and collect them, along with her own dc in same classes as mine. Your dsis could look at nanny sharing, after school club, having a ( responsible) lodger who would pay less to help with childcare. It’s her choice and she has to make the arrangements.

Thank you for your post - as an absolute aside from the thread, I have a bright son with ASD who is really keen to study medicine (starts A Levels in Sept). Should he declare his ASD from the outset when applying and would doing so reduce his chances of being offered a place? He has extra time in his GCSEs, not sure if he gets that in A Levels, but assume so, but no other accommodations. Is expecting grade 8-9s maths/sciences/computers; 6/7s in English/hist/Geog. He jokingly says that he is already aware that his ASD may impact the area of specialisation (so not looking at psychiatry 🤣)… is there anyone/an organisation we can contact for advice/support? Thanks in advance!

Sorry, we really are starting a parallel thread here. But, (a) yes he should declare it in his UCAS application and (b) no it won't reduce his chances of being offered a place unless it adversely affects his performance at interview. All health conditions are considered separately from decisions on admissions: they are dealt with by the occupational health service, not the medical school, and their remit is solely to determine whether the student is fit to study and - in the case of health profession courses - fit for placement.

There are quite a few students with ASD at my medical school, including one who is ranked about 6th in his year group. The things that students with ASD (and their parents) need to consider before application are the impacts of uncertainty and frequent change: there isn't usually a defined syllabus as there is for GCSEs/A-Levels, learning takes place in a variety of settings, with clinical years usually involving frequent changes of department and/or hospital, and initial postgraduate (foundation) training also requires moving from one setting to another every 4 months.

The Higher Education Occupational Physicians (HEOPs) group publishes some helpful information:

https://heops.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/2019/09/1521730794HEOPS_Medical_Students_fitness_standards_2015_v12.pdf

For anything to do with medicine, the General Medical Council (GMC) is the ultimate authority:

https://www.gmc-uk.org/education/standards-guidance-and-curricula/guidance/welcomed-and-valued

https://www.gmc-uk.org/-/media/documents/welcomed-and-valued-2021-english_pdf-86053468.pdf

@NoNotHimTheOtherOne thank you so much for this! And apologies to OP for sidelining on the thread. Am new and should have realised a new thread was probably needed. 🙏

@BusyMummyWrites01 - Look on the Higher education board: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/higher_education. Lots of threads there about studying medicine.

Just say you can’t help her with childcare but good luck. Presumably she can get through the degree if someone can fund full time nursery? Will she only apply to medical schools near your mum? Can see how it will work but not your problem.

I’m assuming she’s a single parent and will taking out student loans in which case she’ll be eligible for a childcare grant so she could pay a child minder or afterschool care. So she mightn’t need as much childcare support as you think.

Years ago I shared a flat with a medical student, she spent all, and I mean all, of her spare time studying, if she wasn’t studying she was sleeping. I think we only once in the whole year managed to go out for lunch and then she was straight back to study after. I just don’t think it would be feasible as a single parent and would be very unfair on the child being passed around.

YANBU!!

Where is the father?

Ridiculous thing to say!

I certainly wouldn't be signing myself up for 4 years of childcare, never mind having someone do it for me! Cant dad have the child?

This is something like I'm referring to upthread (not that I'm denying your friends particular experience is true).

My experience of medical school is nothing like that and neither is that of anybody I know. I also know a lot of regs and consultants socially and through my previous work.

Of course we students put in the hours but not at the expense of being able to have any sort of life.

I know a minority of people with children who study medicine, and absolutely loads who work part time, maintain their hobbies, social lives and downtime.

It is simply not a prerequisite for all medical students to burn the candle to this extent. Many of us mature students treat it as roughly a full time job divided over the year, so more work during exams, less at other times.

I know it may be more demanding during FY and beyond but this post is about medical school and it is simply not accurate to suggest that medical studies have an impossibly heavy workload for most students.

I don't know why the individual in the PP spent so much time studying at the expense of everything else but that isn't everyone. It's a lot but you just have to stay on top of it and find a balance. Our uni is adamant about the importance of this.

I agree with you @Annoyedwithmyself Certainly when I was a medical student there weren't many who did nothing but study and I can't say I get that impression from the current students I know either. Final year maybe - I didn't have much of a social life that year - but even then I certainly went out more like once a week not once a year. Not that I am saying the PP is being untruthful but I'd say her flatmate was an outlier.
Medical school isn't actually particularly difficult and you don't need to be a genius. Most people who can manage to get a place are capable of completing the course without becoming hermits. You need to be reasonably bright, have a good memory and apply yourself to a sensible degree but it needn't take over life completely. It's the easy part of medical training.
However, the hours are still not school hours on the whole so as the OP's sister seems to be a single parent she is presumably going to need significant support from either her family or paid help to make it work, and much more so once she's working and doing more antisocial hours, professional exams etc. I actually found it much harder once my children were older than when they were babies/toddlers. School hours are harder to manage and less flexible than nursery and as children grow up and develop interests* *of their own there's all the extracurricular stuff to factor in. Yes, they don't need nappies changing or wake multiple times a night to breastfeed so it may be less physically tiring as they get older but I found it much harder logistically and more emotionally difficult to work and have school aged children. It can be done of course but not without input from others, whether that is a partner, family, friends, a nanny or whatever and I think the OP is perfectly reasonable to make it clear from the outset that she isn't willing to be that support person, potentially for years.

Yanbu to not want to do the childcare but beyond that, it sounds very much like jealousy at your sisters aspirations. My best friend trained to be a doctor with a 3 year old and then she gave birth to her second dc in her last year of med school. It's totally possible if you are driven and determined and willing to make sacrifices. So by all means don't do the childcare but you could try being supportive in other ways.

Totally reasonable to say no to childcare but you are unreasonable to say she shouldn’t do it. There are other ways. She is clearly clever.