My sister wants to be a doctor. AIBU to say no?

[onthebesttrain]

To refusing childcare help

Not only would most medics say run for the hills anyway, most medics, as in 99.999%, don't have a child when starting medical school.

My sister is 10 years younger than me and currently doing a few shifts as a HCA at the hospital. She completed her a levels and has taken the time away to think of her next steps

She got an A in Biology, Chemistry and English Lit

My mum so supportive but suffers with bad MH issues and chronic fatigue. She said she was so proud of her for choosing medicine and that 'We will support her, I've said we can all chip in'

By all she means me and her... and it's a no from me!

AIBU? This isn't the odd but of childcare. This is ridiculous. Not to mention you need to often travel or live miles away at a moments notice for placements as an FY1, FY2

My mum can't take care of my nephew for that amount of time

My mum said she's really shocked I won't even consider it. I said she isn't thinking right and my sister needs to be more sensible

Seeing them both on Sunday... and I think someone needs to give them both a dose of reality

Our dad is a man of few words and won't.

Actually OP there is an element to think about how old your DN would be when this is an issue- and if their dad is on the scene at all. If your DN is already preschool aged, then if your sister is able to complete the uni part in 9-5ish hours (and so use nursery/wrap around school childcare), would your DN be year 6+ before the shifts start? My year 6 child gets ready for bed /school themselves, can make basic breakfast etc, and walks to/from school, so asking your mum to have a child that age sleep over is a lot less to ask than a preschooler.

if dad is about, having more overnights at dads house in secondary school while mum does night shifts is pretty normal. (it’s pretty standard for kids with separated parents who both live close to school to have more flexible arrangements at secondary- one friend who’s DHs ex lived on one bus route and they were on the other would find the step sons turn up based on which bus arrived first after school.)

so @onthebesttrain i wouldn’t panic that you will be needed to do a lot of childcare or that if you say no your sister won’t be able to do it at all. Just be clear so she can “price in” paid for care and what stage her dc will be when shifts start. It could be she decides to delay uni for 1-2 years so her dc is comfortably at secondary before she has to do shifts.

Not willing? Or not able?
It's an enormous ask!

Why are people trying to guilt the OP here?

SoreAndTired1
Does it need to be either/ or, so black and white? I can’t believe there is nothing she can do to help,ever. I have 2 ND kids and work full time with another NT child , whilst I’m aware how I could help would be extremely limited I’m sure I could find some way to help even in a small way in order to give back. I’d 100% be supporting her regardless not trashing her dream and pretty much ordering their mother to do literally nothing to help too even though she wants to.

Also grandma looks after ops child so actually is capable of doing childcare.

Shipped off? It's not wrong to think a childs father could do their part.

There’s still a lot of misinformation on this thread, which may well be beside the point as far as the OP is concerned. But, foundation year training 1 and 2 is essentially a paid apprenticeship in hospital based medicine following the degree itself. It is not specialist in any way and all medical grads have to do it, even those that want to train as GPs. Only after that do the routes start to diverge into specialisms.

For what it’s worth, my DD, by choice, studied and did the F1 and F2 years in the one same city. So it is possible not to bounce around the country, at least in the early part of the process. I’d like to think med schools would accommodate this for young parents.

And yes there are 2 fathers here and a willing grandma. The free grandparent childcare will simply need to be reallocated, shared around and looked at along with what both fathers can offer too.

I’m assuming OPs sibling hasn’t applied yet. Is this all based on her not only getting a place but one locally?

You have been reading too many Mills and Boon romances.

It's quite sad how negative you are about this. You sound like you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder tbh.

Supposing she did get in to med school, she'd have 4 years of study where I doubt she'd be doing night shifts. If her son is already in pre-school then by the time she's even thinking about actually practicing medicine he'll be well into primary school.

I hope your sister goes for it and crosses all these bridges of yours when/if she gets to them.

There does seem to be an undercurrent of bitterness to the op's posts.

Or realism, perhaps?

There is clearly a lot going on in the family dynamics that complicate this. I don't think the OP should feel guilty or be made to feel guilty about putting her own boundaries in place. There's so much pressure on the women in the family and nothing much said of the men, just for starters.

However, it does feel like OP is raining on her sister's parade for reasons other than childcare. Her sister will 'overtake' her professionally? Will achieve something she couldn't do herself? Will manage to juggle a career and motherhood?

If that is the case OP, it would be understandable that you might feel jealous. But your jealousy is an invitation to look at your own life and consider what is missing and what you'd like to change, or what you are sad or disappointed you couldn't do because of the limitations of your own situation. Be the bigger person - the big sister - and cheer on a young woman who is trying to make something of herself. Then focus back on yourself and your own life.

To say to your sister that she 'can't' is not your place, and does make you seem bitter. People can do amazing and difficult things if others believe in them.

It’s not up to her to decide that her sister going to med school is an ‘unrealistic’ ambition, though. She’s absolutely entitled to make a blanket refusal to offer childcare, obviously, and her mother should never have volunteered her, but it’s her sister’s business.

I certainly know women with children who did medicine, some solo parents, most without family support for childcare.

It's fine for you to state your position but that's all you can do. She's allowed to choose her own path and make her own mistakes, own her own successes.

Seeing them both on Sunday...
It might be an idea to speak to DSis before then:
-get her version of events (is this serious or was she just musing), not DM's
-say straight off that you can't do childcare and get her to agree that it is unfair of DM to volunteer you
-ask DSis what you can do to help (rather than concentrating on what you can't do).

Basically, defuse the situation before Sunday, before DM tries to steamroller.

@onthebesttrain it strikes me that your sister has not actually asked you to do anything as it stands and that she may simply have had a conversation with your mum where she mentioned she is considering applying to study medicine. She may have no intention of asking for your help with childcare, knowing there is funding and there are university creche’s available and may only be hoping you might help in an emergency.

Ie I think you may be jumping the gun. I would wait and see what she says but be kind and supportive when you explain that, with your children’s needs, you don’t feel you can offer regular support but are really proud that she has this goal.

Otherwise, as many posters here have said (and my GP neighbours confirm), it is totally doable to become a doctor with a small child if you are determined enough and get support from the university etc. That you find the thought of it overwhelming, simply means it’s not for you. Or maybe you are conflicted and wondering whether returning to your old job might be feasible one day?

I have two children with ASD, one with ADHD and significant, acute MH issues which meant I had to give up my career, too, so I do understand that there may be some personal frustration. However, I did manage to run my own home-based childcare business/do a part time psychology degree as slow but certain steps towards retraining/adapting my skills to a new career. It didn’t go smoothly, but my eldest is now 18 (uni/or sim looks to be at least 2 years away), youngest is near 16/doing GCSEs and won a boarding place at one of the best 6th forms so my life is coming back to me… I did an MA recently and am now doing a PHD. It’s been hard, but just as hard a being a teen single mum doing A Levels and hoping to study medicine.

I hope that you can see that you both deserve to have lives outside your children, to be role models to both your children, and that even with your children’s needs there will be scope for you to reclaim your own life. I would hope that you can find a way to support your sister - even though offering childcare support is impossible - and that, in return, she will be able to support you in return.

Nope, most drs I know are married to people they either met in med school or met at work.

I'm a final year med student, I don't have a child but I do have a disability- not saying it's an equivalent before anyone gets offended but it has meant I've needed adjustments, support and haven't just been able to waltz through without a care.

There is a lot of support out there for non-traditional learners which people may not be aware of it they have never had to look for it. This may apply to a single parent. It wouldn't be for me to say for sure as I have never had to ask but widening access is a priority. I won't have to do nights on placement and have been able to stay local, for instance. I know that those with kids are given some preference when applying to FYs.

Don't @ me on this. As I say, I have never looked into how it is with children and don't know exactly what is available where but there is support in that sense. It may not be a simple case of having to go all over the place at all hours in other to complete training.

Anyway. With your sister, make very clear of asked that you will not be able to provide child care.

Then leave it at that. Don't start on about'watertight' childcare and all the rest of it.

To be honest whether or not you are, you do sound resentful. And yes, I know clinical work is hard. Harder than medical school. But you don't know the full picture of what help is out there. It isn't for you to find out. Disengage. She will simply have to work things out for herself.

It isn't for you to say what your sister can and cannot do with her life, she needs to look into it herself.

People seem to enjoy jumping on Medicine threads with negative 'absolute truths' for some reason in a way that I have never seen with engineering or other hard subjects, not realising that actually there can be ways to make it work in terms of admissions and adjustments. An example is the one about her A levels which apparently isn't true. Occasionally you still see the 30 year upper age limit still quoted. Some information is bollocks and some is only true in certain circumstances so don't start informing your sister as you don't know. Not everything applies to every university. Just let her know your limits and then back off.

Thank you for your post - as an absolute aside from the thread, I have a bright son with ASD who is really keen to study medicine (starts A Levels in Sept). Should he declare his ASD from the outset when applying and would doing so reduce his chances of being offered a place? He has extra time in his GCSEs, not sure if he gets that in A Levels, but assume so, but no other accommodations. Is expecting grade 8-9s maths/sciences/computers; 6/7s in English/hist/Geog. He jokingly says that he is already aware that his ASD may impact the area of specialisation (so not looking at psychiatry 🤣)… is there anyone/an organisation we can contact for advice/support? Thanks in advance!

Great post!

Agree! OP sounds angry and bitter her sis is even considering a medical career.

To be honest whether or not you are, you do sound resentful.

I think that’s deeply unfair. I think OP is frustrated with her sister for putting her mum, who is not well, in the position that she is. And the fact that she is made to feel guilty too for not “chipping in”.

I also think that until you start your foundation years you don’t really know how you will find it. There are many doctors with children much further into their training who really struggle. OP has seen it at the coalface for herself.

Has she considered a nursing degree? I mean it would still be tricky but not as hard as medicine. Would the DC's father be able to help with night shifts? Is there a local hospital with a nursery attached that she could use for childcare when at Uni and on placement? At least with nursing you get a set area where your placements will be.

Nurses get treated like shit imo - she’d be better off with a kid doing some kind of science and going into the pharmaceutical industry. Quicker training, better pay, better hours.