I'm starting to think "shouty" parenting isn't ENTIRELY bad! [grin]

[MsMarch]

This is a slightly facetious post because I really don't think it is that simple or that there is a definitive right or wrong answer...

I shout at my children sometimes. Not a lot or excessively but, for example, if their behaviour is very poor I am likely to shout at them to stop it or tell them to leave the room or similar. We're not talking shrill screaming, but we're certainly not talking calm, "please stop doing that now" either. I have noticed similar with my siblings (not surprising I guess) and also a few friends.

I'm starting to notice that people who appear never to shout at their children, also seem to have a lot of behaviour issues. I suspect the real truth is that SOME parents who don't shout, ALSO don't have enough boundaries of any form and that's what's really happening, but from the outside, it just seems like the super patient kind ones are also the ones with the most badly behaved children.

In one case, I am actually concerned about a friend and her DH and their relationship. Every time we see them, her DH appears more and more worn down and exhausted and he has said a few times it's because he just so overwhelmed from the children and their behaviour. HER response is to say that the children are behaving that way because of x or y (usually sounds totally realistic so I understand where she's coming from) and that it's not their fault - and the dynamic is very much that he is NOT allowed to discipline or shout at the DC. The problem is that these are pre-teens so when the 9 year old is stealing food, making secret online purchases, refusing to allow anyone to watch TV if it's not what SHE wants to watch etc... even if it IS because she's exhausted and overwhelmed, its an issue. And her sister is similar but different - lots of screaming and shouting and refusal to listen, hitting out when frustrated etc.

This is an extreme example and a family I'm genuinely worried about as the mum is a very good friend, but I also saw it a lot over Christmas while we were out and about, "Rupert, please stop banging that lady's leg" accompanied by a wan smile at me as Rupert continued to whack me and so on.

In the case of my friend, there have been instances where I've been with them and my DD has behaved similarly, and I immediately jump on the behaviour. So DH and I are considering whether we need to spend less time with them simply because DD is not getting boundaries enforced there either.

Another teacher here. Taught for about 10 years before having kids. You learn quite quickly in teaching, that shouting all the time gets you nowhere. Especially when it's cos you've lost control.

Now a well chosen, tightly focused shout.... well that's a thing of joy.

I have shouted at my own out of sheer frustration, when they were little or during the tantrum phase. I've never really needed to shout at them to make them behave, especially out of the house. I had A Look and just:"i don't think so. Do you?"

I mainly employ a theatrical shout these days, in response to a shit tip of a room or some arsiness from the female one. I quite like a "just who/ where do you think you are, madam?"

I know what you mean. I’ve always had stages with my DD. It starts with a polite notice and then the worst is “isolation” for a few minutes followed by writing me a letter to explain what went wrong (when she was younger it would just be the step). That seems to do the trick for her. I’ve had to look after family members children and each one have their own “triggers” - for one child being sent to their room was as big a punishment, whereas another would only acknowledge the behaviour if an adult raises their voice at them.

Every child is different. Every scenario is different. I tend to be calm and if I shout it’s because DD has completely crossed the boundaries (when younger something silly like running into the road or being out of control whilst shopping and getting told off at home) and when older they would have really had to cross the boundaries. Or hey, I’m human - sometimes it can get heated now that she’s a tween but it always de-escalates quickly and then we talk about it.

She is well behaved. We have a strong relationship. I’ve been told she’s a pleasure to be around and actually having a child that’s well behaved means I also get life as friends don’t mind babysitting and I can actually take her places.

I do see less discipline these days and I know a few parents that feel absolutely guilty when they tell their children off. In the long run their children rule them and it seems so rubbish. They often can’t go out for more than an hour without a meltdown and their children are very hard to look after as they can do what they want.

Couldn’t agree more!! We’ve hosted “friends” recently who have in the past accidentally let slip that they’re not saying “no” to their daughter.. and it shows… mum cannot cope AT ALL being home alone with 2, and the behaviour is frankly ridiculous!
There is a happy medium somewhere I’m sure, but boundaries and some shouting are clearly necessary. My children are frankly feral but they’re behaviour is better than I’ve just witnessed from the child who’s never told no or not shouted at! That amongst some other absolutely things is making me take a step back from people who were genuinely great friends before they had kids! They’ve taken gentle parenting beyond too far and they’re creating an absolute monster! They won’t be told though 🙄

I’m a shouter, but will sometimes be like why did I do that and apologies other times it’s very needed, I won’t feel guilty about it either that’s life.. I try my best as most of us do !

I don't think that anybody needs to shout beyond where a child is in actual physical danger and you need them to stop right there and then. It's possible to project your voice, make it deeper and firmer in a way that makes it clear you are not tolerating whatever it is without the actual loss of control physically that shouting requires. in short, Raising your voice =/= shouting.

The ex used to shout. You could feel it vibrating through your ribs and face, it hurt the ears and felt as much of an assault as when he hurt me physically. My mother would shout and the shrillness of pitch hurt my ears more than a wallop around the head. They both did it because of the physical effects.

When teachers shout, the class knows they've lost control of themselves as well as the class and they might as well spray petrol vapour onto a lit Bunsen Burner for all the good it will do in calming down any situation - and many of those children will be on the receiving end of it at home, so it hurts them, puts them in fear of physical harm, gives them the signal that Miss has Lost It or it simply doesn't register because they've heard it all before.

Nothing wrong with a it of shouting every now and again when absolutely called for. It's an important life lesson for the kids to see such consequences for bad behaviour because you know that people out there in the real world don't smile and use their gentle voices on you when pissed off.
I also have a friend who likes gentle parenting and her kids are so awful I avoid seeing her now.

Are you little Rupert mum by any chance 🙄

I like to think I’m a pragmatic parent, I will show my children I am human and I will discuss issues with them. However, there are times where you need to get control fast.

Our children will one day have to deal with a myriad of people from a myriad of cultures, I wouldn’t be doing them any sort of favour by letting them get away with murder as kids. We all have to learn to co-exist peacefully.

Couldn’t agree more @StephanieSuperpowers - the combination of comment and username paints quite the picture, doesn’t it?

Personally I agree , some parents take gentle parenting way too far and the kids are usually absolutely feral brats that absolutely no one wants to be anywhere near and sometimes its just sheer laziness they cba to deal with bad behaviour so ignore it .
If you don't discipline your child or tell them no how the hell do you think they are going to cope with adult life where you cannot have what you want whenever you want it and there are rules

You've hit the nail on the head and said it perfectly

I give mine the look, it worked on me and it works on them. Sometime dd11 pushes it too far and I will raise my voice slightly, but that’s usually after telling her no 10 times. I’ll admit I’m a swearer, so sometimes i do lose my shit. The thing is, children like to push buttons, they can be little gits.. they need to know when they’ve crossed lines otherwise they won’t ever learn.

The problem I have with trying to explain to kids the reasons behind their actions ("You bit/hit Johnny because you didn't like him touching your toys. It's hard when people touch your toys" etc.) is that some behaviour is entirely unacceptable however you're feeling. It doesn't matter if a child is tired/cross/upset/doesn't want to leave/doesn't want to share etc., other children need to be protected from physical violence and that child needs to be kept safe. If they're past the age of being physically shadowed by a parent who can intervene if necessary, they need to know, and they need to know quickly, that they've crossed a line and they'd better not do it again. I prefer physical removal from the situation or a slightly raised tone ("Stop that right now, please!") to actual shouting myself, but some people would consider that as being "shouty".

And obviously there is a huge difference between using a stern, raised tone with a child as compared to completely losing control and berating them.

Depends whether the shouting is from an authoritarian parent or an authoritative one. DH is the former, and our kids don't listen to him, ignore him and tune out his angry ranting.

I try to be an authoritative parent. I don't shout often, but when I do it's purely for emphasis, not coming from my own emotional state, and it gets attention fast!

I have a relative who has gone down the permissive route, doesn't shout, doesn't even seem to say "no" to their toddler, instead spurting out a long stream of 'gentle' words (if not just giving in straight away) which the child ignores - have to say that really isn't going well for them so far!

Shouting is never appropriate, IMHO. Would you shout at your boss? A colleague? Your Mum?

But this doesn't mean children should have no boundaries

It’s this sort of judgy nonsense that makes parenting children with different needs so difficult, because the weight of expectation from other people as to the right way to impose discipline means you often end up parenting in a way that is counterproductive and doesn’t suit the needs of your child, just to satisfy other people who want to see you shout at your child. I spent more time that I should have being a shouty parent, to the detriment of my children who both since have been diagnosed ND. I did a parenting course as part of a specialist support approach and one of the first things we were told is that you have to 1. Reframe your expectations of what parenting is and should be and 2. Not care about what other people think.

Also gentle parenting very much promotes setting and adhering to boundaries, it just means explaining what they are in advance and acknowledging that they might not be welcome but they are necessary. Lots of people on this thread do not know what gentle parenting is.

Lots of people who claim to practice gentle parenting seem to be confused about what it is by that description @Whyohwhywyoming.

There objectively are a lot of people practising permissive parenting and calling it gentle parenting.

It’s weirdly spiteful.

The sad thing is that some of those doing the 'gentle' parenting (or non parenting as it is in fact) think they are doing the child a favour by not imposing any boundaries or discipline. So the child grows up believing the world revolves around them and they can treat others poorly with no consequences.

It is perfectly natural to use your voice to express yourself. If you say everything in a soft voice then how on earth can children, or anyone else for that matter, work out how you feel. If you are cross with your child you use a cross voice, if they don't listen and do as they are told when you ask them nicely or they do something deliberately naughty you use your voice to show them your displeasure and shout. Simple. Seeing that adults express themselves and that their behaviour is provoking a negative reaction which they don't like is how they learn.

I work in a school that has a 'no raised voices' policy and it is having a negative impact on behaviour- you cannot tell a child off in a soft voice as it doesn't have any impact.

So I try my upmost not to shout at the kids. 95% of the time that they are frustrating me I achieve this. I still try to be firm (may slightly raise voice and say NO) but discuss the issues.
My husband on the other hand is very strict and regularly shouts at our 3 year old. This makes her cry and it usually seems an unnecessary drama…HOWEVER she behaves SO much better for HIM!
With me I have issues getting her to school some days or to do as I’m asking. She tends to do what Daddy asks much more rapidly! Also I can’t even say she’s scared of him, actually she prefers him! If she wakes in the night or hurts herself it’s always ‘Daddy’. Daddy gets all the cuddles and kisses. I occasionally am granted a hug!
So I think there is something in it. I’m trying to be meaner but it’s not really me to scream.
Ironically we are both experienced teachers. He shouts more at work than I do too! But we are both (mostly) able to effectively deal with behavioural issues there.

I don't shout often, but I am firm, my tone of voice changes, I don't know if it's her personality or the way we have raised her but my daughter is a pretty chilled out person so we're lucky.

I have really shouted on a couple of occasions though, that I feel have warranted it, for example, one was running off from me in a car park which is a massive safety issue and I need her to know that's not ok, because I don't want her to get hurt.

Unfortunately though, lots of people who decide to gentle parent don't know what it is, therefore don't do it correctly.

The principles of actual gentle parenting are great, but some people have just taken on board the 'dont say no' and 'dont shout' I think that's the biggest issue.