If you're not voting Labour because of Palestine or gender nonsense ...

[CheesyJacketPotato]

Are you really ok with having another Tory government? Because in all honesty that is what you'll get.

The Tory party have already done this. Following PM Theresa May's Self ID proposal in 2017, male sex offenders have been put on women's wards and in women's prisons where they've gone on to assault women.

6 years of Tory TRA Ministers heading Education has fucked up the learning of an entire cohort of children. Even now the Tory government refuses to issue the necessary guidance to schools to keep our children and teaching staff safe.

Some Tories know what a woman is.
Some Tories believe TWAW.
One Tory MP believes he is becoming a woman.
None of them give a shit about women.

I haven't come across one person in real life who is concerned much about the trans situation, so suspect there is a small vocal group on here making it seem bigger than it is. I'm more concerned personally about the party who will protect me from all round male violence and I'm not sure that's the tories.

The whole ideology of the Conservative party is around less government interference, aka, not giving a fuck about other people. So voting for them over other parties because of the trans issue is stupid in my opinion. All they care about is lining their own pockets and those of their mates.

@mrscatwoman

"How many Tory MPs is it that have been accused of rape/sexual assaults?"

Yep, they certainly know what a woman is don't they.

You do understand that not voting Labour doesn't mean you're going to vote Tory? Most posters I've seen on here have said they're not voting for either (or any of the main parties,actually). I've seen a few people say they'll vote Tory, but not many.

Charlie Elphick
Crispin Blunt
Chris Pincher
Andrew Rosindell
Peter Bone
Imran Ahmad Khan
Andrew Griffiths
Rob Roberts
And the unnamed multiple rapist we heard about a couple of weeks ago whose victim was told to "Get over it" by the Conservative Whip.

Apologies if I've forgotten someone.

But unless you vote for the person who can unseat/block a Tory in your constituency, you are enabling a Tory government to be re-elected. FPTP may be shit, but if we ignore it we end up with the Tories again. In my area in 2019 there were 4 options plus a looney one for those who didn't want Brexit and/or were left of the Tories (Lib, Lab - meant risking ref 2, Green and an independent). Together, those votes added quite a bit more than the Tory candidate got, but he got in. We can't piss around like this, it's just wasted votes.

Hobson's choice indeed.

Well, no. I don't imagine Labour will come in and reverse those policies, but I also don't think they will introduce any more that are so grossly unfair. Whereas the Tories absolutely will. I don't really see your point - Labour can't make everything perfect/aren't necessarily all that we'd want them to be, so we don't vote for them, which, depending where you live, will get us more Tory governance. I just don't get it.

Imagine a party was trying to erase all the rights of one ethnic minority group - and telling them white people could be black. How many MN posters would be bleating about it being ‘race nonsense’? Expecting that group to vote for a party that espoused this because ‘cost of living’ etc?

it’s truly disgusting that only women’s rights are ever dismissed this way. If we’re lucky we get ‘culture war issue’

Even if you can dismiss women’s rights as no big deal - as so many seem to be able to - why isn’t the denial of objective reality important to you? If politicians can tell us absurd like like ‘some women have a penis’ what else are you going to trust them on?

If all the other issues are so critical to the country, why is Labour wasting its time with this mad bullshit?

I like the Labour mission ideology but I want to know how they propose to fund it all. Also Starmer is a bit of a wet lettuce and don’t understand why he is still leader.

A vote for a minority party is a vote for the Tories.

Because I think, based on their own admission that they won't change much of anything, they will also fundamentally harm women's rights. The right to speak clearly about reality, truth and biology, the right to be fairly represented as a sex class in politics, they will tear down safeguarding policies while demanding that everyone be quiet kind, they will change the metrics of database collection so that the harms of these policies will vanish. I don't think it's worth it for a whole lot of nothing.

I won't be voting for any of them. No party represents me or my interests

There is a huge issue in British politics Imo.

Tories are just …. Out. Grabby, self serving, liars, etc etc etc
But Labour…. Isn’t much better. It’s not just Palestine, the gender stuff. It’s how they refuse to even talk about brexit, the benefits system (eg they are not going to vote against the new rules that will claimants lose their rights to free prescription etc….) etc etc… they are not a party of the left supporting workers, disabled people and the most vulnerable anymore.

Who else is there to vote for? In a country with a two party system, Not a lot 😢😢
But it’s certainly not democratic or representative of the population.

@nationallampoons "I won't be voting for any of them. No party represents me or my interests"

So vote for the least worst.

You’re right.
They are just supporting the implementation of all those new rules so they can say ‘not me!,’.
And then when we’ll be used to it, they’ll add another layer on the top. Because if they refuse to vote against those new rules now, why will they stop creating some new ones exactly the same once in power??

Is there one?

Reeves has been saying for years and years that she isn't interested in people on benefits.

2015:
https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/anger-after-reeves-tells-benefit-claimants-labour-is-not-for-you/

2013
www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/oct/12/labour-benefits-tories-labour-rachel-reeves-welfare

No. what Starmer pretty much said was that he didn't care what costs there are to women, it's more important that the men who demand to be called women get to use women's spaces as their own. He pretty much said men matter and women don't. He also harassed and bullied Rosie Duffield for taking an actual clear stance on women's rights. He's a vile misogynist.

Labour have always been the party of working people so that is nothing new . Affiliated with the unions and I don’t think there is anything wrong with that .If you don’t look after the workers you will have lots more people on disability benefits ! Labour will always look after people far better than the Tories but saying that I am reconsidering my vote for Labour at the next election as I was very disappointed that my local MP did not vote for a cease fire. I did not back in any shape of form what Israel has done. I would vote Green but obviously don’t want to waste my vote so will probably vote tactically in the end.

Okay, what policies do they intend to implement for workers that will benefit women so much it's worth decimating women's rights?

Actually don't answer that for my benefit, I'm going out and will look rude when I don't reply.

Not anymore @kerstina
Dont think that because that’s what Labour USED TO stand for, that’s what it is now.

You do understand that in many constituencies not voting for Labour (either by voting for a minority party or spoiling your ballot) will ensure a Tory gets in? If you live in one where another party can beat the Tories, crack on.

Labour are only marginally appealing over the Tories.

Labour are ignoring the people who say they won’t vote for them because of the party’s stance on trans issues, and they are absolutely right to do so; for two reasons :
1, There aren’t enough of them to significantly move the dial.
2, Given the typical demographic of these people, it’s highly likely that many of them live in safe Labour seats in London and university cities.

Palestine is different. There are around 4 million Muslims in the U.K. and the overwhelming majority of them vote Labour. If they desert the party in big numbers, Labour could lose large numbers of seats in places like London, Birmingham, Bradford, Leicester etc etc. That’s why 56 Labour MPs rebelled against the leadership this week to vote for the SNP’s motion calling for a ceasefire in Gaza.